We find ourselves so far facing silence or evasion. It's an unwritten rule now of the Internet designed by those who cannot withstand scrutiny of their worldviews and don't want others to see their errors, because they don't want to have to change to what is truly the right path for each individual and the whole of humanity. They use many methods of evasion and silence and silencing. Mostly they just refuse to engage in open, honest, and direct dialogue. They act as if the refutation of their systems doesn't exist. They go on pretending that they are still right even though having already been shown to be wrong. They cover their tracks. They censor and break links. They refuse to allow people to see what doesn't agree with their defenseless positions. That is what they did toward Jesus, but there were people then who wouldn't go along. They supported his efforts to bring out the truth. People in general are not as good as were those original Christians. People today are in general much worse, much more dishonest, and much less desirous of living in truth.
Seeking Truth No Matter Where it Leads
There have been people who have come to this site, finding it only because of a huge effort to break through the barriers that have been erected to wall out the truth. Some have made a more honest effort than have others. None though so far has come in the spirit of seeking the truth no matter where it leads. It is in that spirit of seeking the truth no matter where it leads that we began our search and found Jesus at the end of years of looking.
Mainstream Hates the Church
We see the mainstream full of commentary by those held out to be worthy of being heard who are not. It is loaded with such voices. We know that the mainstream is owned by the few at the top who dictate. They hate that for which the Real Liberal Christian Church stands. They don't want giving and sharing all with all. They want more for themselves without merit. They don't want peace. They want war. They don't want sexual harmlessness. They want to self-license themselves to do any sexual act they want no matter the ultimate harm.
Now, not all major media outlets are pushing for the same things uniformly. None though is for giving and sharing all with all, peace, and sexual harmlessness, all three. Many of the leaders feign Christianity. Many are atheists and some are barely practicing Jews. Many are Jewish in the ethnic sense and are decided rejecters of Jesus. They are in the lead socially now in the worldly sense because of their monopoly in controlling currencies (money) and are decidedly leading the masses away from the message of Jesus, which message we partially lay out below. No good will come from pretending otherwise. Therefore, we seek to turn those who are lost.
Christianity Against All Harm
This site lays out all the reasons why Christianity is right. It is about giving and sharing all, total and unqualified pacifism, and (redundantly but needing to be said and reinforced constantly until Heaven comes) for harmlessness that necessarily includes sexual harmlessness. One cannot be a Christian, which is for turning the other cheek and for not stoning others, while being unopposed to harm from sex. That would be hypocrisy, and hypocrisy is un-Christian.
Now, as has become our habit of late, we are replying in great detail to comments placed on our website in the knowledge that the word will spread despite ostracism, censorship, and the new blacklisting.
Our reply here will touch upon many points and contain seeming redundancies, but will drive toward the full picture that is without hypocrisy. That's what it is to be Christian: Non-hypocritical. Bear with us. It is a chore to break through error that has been conditioned into minds for eons, but these things must be said. Understand that the writing style used in this post is deliberate. It may seem to ramble or be disorganized, but I assure you, there is a method. Read through the whole thing to get the whole feeling and thrust.
The following comment is part of a series. Our reply is our effort to show the commentator where he goes wrong concerning his statements about our vision. It is very revealing. Here is his last comment in total.
I apologize for how long it has taken to reply to your last post.
I am going to be frank with you. The commons looks like a good idea, but it is not the narrow path, nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell. The commons is not salvation.
I am very disturbed with your usage of scripture, you have a habit of taking scripture completely out of context and twisting it to suit your own agenda. Are you God that your word is mightier? When Jesus told us to be gentle as doves, He was not referring to sexual immorality as you are so fond of spouting, He was talking to the 12 disciples. Are you implying these 12 were gay? Or even bi-, considering Peter was married? He was sending them out to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to a rebellious nation that had time and time again killed the prophets, chased after false gods, and rebelled against God over the centuries. He was telling them to be wary - they were to preach a message that would not be well received.
Jesus commanded us to love each other. My question to you is this: How are you showing the Love of God with your anti-gay rhetoric? God is longsuffering towards is in His Love. Yes, He wants us to be perfected, but He is patient in this process. Remember this: He judges us after we die, not before.
All sin carries the same penalty - death. Jesus said God hates divorce. Lies, murder, adultery, idolatry... its is all equal. Homosexuality is not the pinnacle of a sin pyramid. Sin is sin. Plain and simple. Not to mention that he who breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments.
If you truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you. His ways of doing this is marvelous. I met a guy on the bus who had had such a heart for the homeless, but was unable to meet them on their level. So God made this man homeless. When I spoke to him, he was praising God for his homelessness because it equipped him to be able to minister to the homeless. I have met people that used their prosperity to adopt children with developmental disabilities.
I will end on this note: Salvation is found in God's mercy, not in trying to show our worth.
How obligated are we toward you to continue answering your questions when you evade answering our questions that were all on subject? We asked you specific questions the answers to which had you been forthcoming would have helped to lead you to understand the place from which we come that you inquired about.
We aren't on some fishing expedition as spies to then turn in souls to Satan. We are about figuratively and unashamedly yelling from the rooftop for the sake of turning souls away from the current, wrong system. Yet, you don't answer our specific questions. Jesus was against those who refused to answer his specific questions all of which were exactly on subject. Nevertheless, you come here still making more statements, deriding us, and asking more questions. Are we being longsuffering? When do we give up trying to reach you? Well, this isn't just for you.
Reading In and Missing
Your comments are so far from understanding that it is difficult to see how to get from where you are to where we are. You're reading in so much that we aren't saying, and you're missing so much of what we are saying.
We asked you in earlier posts to go back and provide answers to our earlier questions for the express purpose of being able to answer your questions. You deliberately avoided doing that. Is that because you could not provide coherent answers? Would your inability have exposed you to yourself as having an incomplete theological understanding? We stopped for awhile trying to answer you, because we cannot make you leapfrog into grasping what we've put here on this website for all to see. You need stepping stones. We all do. That's why you should have answered. You have been remiss via your evasion. Everyone is capable of making mental leaps to one degree or another. Different people can leap further than others can. People can get better at leaping. Spiritual legs are capable of growing in adulthood and into old age. It won't happen though for the uncooperative.
We are going to give this discussion another opportunity (stepping stones) with the view that you will reply in earnest, which means you will answer rather than evade.
Now, once again, we will take what you've said point-by-point and explain. Your comment from above is broken out into block quotes.
The commons looks like a good idea, but it is not the narrow path, nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell. The commons is not salvation.
You're wrong. You're mixing things that don't belong together. The following explains:
Heaven is the Commons: Sharing all with God
Heaven is the Commons by definition. Don't make the mistake of thinking of it as being solely on the mundane level. Read the Gospel. Jesus shares all with God. That means Heaven. Jesus shares all with his followers. That means Heaven too. It's too bad for you that you can't see it. You're blind to it, even though it's right in the Gospel. Open your eyes. Read it. It's there.
Are you saying that Jesus's way was not holding all things in common? Are you saying that his disciples and he didn't live out of one purse? Are you saying that Acts lies that the apostles continued living that way? Are you saying that Jesus was wrong and you are right? Yet, you ask us, "Are you God that your word is mightier?" You better shine that spotlight of yours back upon yourself before you go casting stones. You live in a glass house.
His commandment is to feed the lambs and sheep. He gave many commandments, all of which are consistent with the Commons, because the ultimate Commons is his commandment (Heaven) when all is said and done. He said to give everything for the sake of the poor. It means sharing all wealth. How can it mean anything else? He said taxing the children is wrong. He said be perfect as God the provider. He also said woe to anyone not found doing the commandments when the Son of man returns. We can go on and on expressing everything he said. It is all consistent with the outcome that is the highest Heaven that is a single Commons of all. How can avoiding the Commons be salvation?
Jesus Prayed for the Commons
Whatever Jesus wants for us on the Earth, that's what we want. He taught the prayer, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. If our God's kingdom in Heaven is a Commons, and it is, and if he prayed for that to come to Earth, then he prayed for the Earth to become a Commons. The Commons as we've expressed it in writing is wholly consistent with making strait the way. It is a best reflection, considering the relative darkness on the Earth at this time. It is something we come into. It is process.
The burden of proof is on you to show how God and Jesus's kingdom in Heaven isn't the ultimate Commons.
You asked more than once in your comments if we had any prayer requests. We answered you in the spirit of openness. We find that you asked us disingenuously, since you knew our mission at the time. You couldn't possibly have honored your offer to pray for what we answered while also holding all the positions against us that you do. We asked you to pray for our mission: Bringing forth the Christian Commons. You couldn't have prayed for the Commons as we told you what it stands for, and then come here and hack at it.
You haven't dented it though have you? You aren't going to dent it either. It's frustrating to you. You need to stop working in vain and out of the bitterness in your heart towards us. You're transferring your anger onto us. We aren't the ones who have made your life hard.
No Better Devices
The Commons is to do what Jesus said to do. It was what the first Apostles did in their first, original Church and then building upon it. Among other things, it is for the purpose of feeding the lambs and sheep. It is to do that as consistently as possible with all of Jesus's other teachings and his exemplary life starting from where we are, where the world is now, the world's mentality. We have seen no better devices proposed, because there aren't any better devices.
What is Christianity
Christianity is a union. It is not a confederation. It is not a group of distinct denominations or theological bents. Christianity is the mind of Jesus. It is not pluralism in that it is not a multiplicity of beliefs concerning what is and what is not moral or good or right or harmless or unselfish and the like. Christianity is only what Jesus thought and thinks. It is not of individualists. It is a collective of individuals who separate themselves together to God and shine that light brightly and openly together into the world to save it by God. That's the Church. There is only one Church.
Usage Doesn't Dictate
Contrary to popular opinion, it isn't defined by usage. Usage doesn't dictate what is or isn't Christian. Christian is what Jesus said in the Gospels and is the Holy Spirit that is exactly consistent with that teaching. No deviation is allowed. Those who want to deviate go off on the wide path still claiming to be Christians. Christians are only the followers of Jesus. Even when he returns, he is a follower of Jesus. No Episcopal Church with its homosexual bishop or bishop who claims Christian priests can also be Muslims can change the definition of Christian. That's not Christianity.
Establishing This Church
You are against the establishing of this Church. You are against my Church, which is Jesus's Church, because, among other reasons it stands for giving and sharing all together, pacifism, sexual harmlessness, and bringing forth the Christian Commons as an open and bright light for all to see (as many bright, shining cities on many hills) until the whole Earth is of that voluntary communism (not Marxism, not coercive), pacifism, cooperation (not competition), and sexual propriety (wholesomeness, health).
Standing Against This Church
You are against people donating to this Church. You work at odds with the mission of this Church. You make yourself the enemy of this mission. That's not good. You work to dissuade people from believing that if they enter into helping us or into membership with this Church no matter where they are that they will be entering into the labors of Jesus Christ.
Everything Good is On the Narrow Way
Now, you say the Commons is a "good idea" but that it is not the narrow path or saving. However, if it is a good idea then it is consistent with Jesus's desires. Nothing can be consistent with Jesus's desires and also be good but not be part of his way, which way is a whole way leading to salvation. There is no such thing as something that is good that is not part of the narrow way and salvation. The converse is also true. There is no such thing as something that is evil that is not part of the wide path and damnation. If it is good, it is of the real Heaven. If it is evil, it is of Hell. This is Jesus's teaching. If it is good, it is of God. If it is evil, it is of Satan. Heaven is God's kingdom. If the Commons is a good idea, it is of the kingdom. Nothing of that kingdom is to be rejected. Everything of that kingdom is to be stood by, by those of that kingdom. If you don't understand this, you are not of the kingdom. You are a loner: Lost from the flock if you were ever of it.
Come Back Together
People have come together with the wrong goals (harmful and selfish) and therefore necessarily using wrong means (harmful). Some have split off to do right things, others to do further wrong. Those who have separated themselves to God as themselves part of the Christ spirit (to be consistent and same), then are to come back together with their like kind. You're not advocating that those people come together though. Jesus is though. He's calling his together to be real, which is to be liberal, which is to bring forth abundantly and harmlessly, and which together require crediting God, for there is no such abundance or harmlessness without God, as we may readily see by the current state of the worldly world that is fighting over scarcity they have caused by their harmful apostasy.
If you didn't realize it before and have now come to realize it, then you stand corrected, which is good. If you stand corrected, from here on you say what is correct. You support it, as you are able. You never write or talk to try to put it down. You say the Commons is what it is, which is bringing forth Heaven on Earth to the extent human beings are able to do that by turning to God in earnest and by sharing all and entering into each other's labor as Jesus taught.
No Vested Interests
If you have some vested interest with which you are unwilling to part for the sake of the whole, you aren't of the whole Church. You aren't of the branch. Again, you are a loner no matter how much you're around other people or attend services. That's not what Jesus wanted for his Church. It is right to commune alone at times with God, but it is not right to be apart from the real Church in spirit ever. In fact, one cannot commune with God and be spiritually apart from his Church. The Church is where your heart is.
The Commandments as One: Wholeness
The Commons is the doing of the Golden Rule. It is the showing of the New Commandment. It is the First and Second Great Commandments. One cannot love one's neighbor as one's self or love God with one's all or do to others what one ought to want others to do unto one or love others as Jesus loved and loves his followers and not be for the Commons being the state, the condition, the emotional state, of all the Earth and Heaven as one. The Commons is a state of heart and mind. It is a spiritual condition. It is that state and condition brought forth, manifested, and made incarnate as its members. That state of mind and that spirit is Jesus's mind, his mentality, his worldview, his mind-set, and it is God and it is ours in which to share completely. You cannot deny us from entering in. You don't have that power. You don't hold the key to lock us out. We see through and walk right through you. That said, each commune would be a part of the whole. The whole would be in each part. This is exactly Christianity.
Everything the Commons is about is about doing exactly what Jesus called upon us to do as his followers. The way in which we have expressed it is simply the beginning of the unfolding of the whole faith that will lead to the same degree of faith that was evident when Jesus did his miracles.
Darkest Age So Far Now
Right now, the world is extremely dark. It is darker than when Jesus walked the Earth. Faith is less than it was — much less. The people calling themselves Christian today don't have the faith that the five thousand had when Jesus fed them on five loaves and two fishes and ended up with twelve baskets full of bread and everyone satisfied. There is not such faith amongst five thousand people on the face of the Earth today. They are splintered and have been refusing to conflate (be blown together by the Holy Spirit to speak with one voice). There are false shepherds breaking them up into individualists.
Supporting the Commons
As for your statement, "...nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell," that depends on what the person knows, that to which he or she has been exposed, and what he or she is doing and why. It depends upon what is in the person's heart. We'll explain in a bit. However, this is your characterization and not our statement. Where did we write a blanket statement that anyone who does not participate is doomed to hell? We have qualified our statements.
The person with the right heart is already of the Commons in heart, even if he or she can't contribute monetarily or be on a commune physically. We've written that same sentiment before. That person will be of help simply by telling others the Commons is right. That person is not against any real liberal thing for which Jesus stands. Are you saying that Jesus is against the Commons and that it is not on the narrow path? Are you saying that the Commons is of the wide path leading to Hell? How is this so?
The person with the right heart who is already of the Commons in heart, even if he or she can't contribute monetarily or be on a commune physically, will still encourage everyone who is in a position to help to do just that even if it is just with a tiny amount. Afterall, the old woman gave a tiny offering, but it was more than all the offerings of the rich who gave only a portion out of their tremendous fortunes gained or held selfishly.
Jesus is for the Commons. Everyone who loves Jesus will love the idea of the Commons. Anyone who knocks the Commons the way you're doing doesn't truly love Jesus. He or she doesn't know the real Jesus.
Who Owns All?
Listen and look, Quazi. The Commons belongs to all Christians. It is one purse no matter where that purse is. If People in California or Argentina or India or wherever form a Commons as we've expressed it here, they will say that I as a real Christian own that with them every bit as much as they do. Why it that true? It's easy to understand if you are a real Christian. I will be welcome there, because I believe in feeding the lambs and sheep in that way, which in the end is the only way, the sharing way, God's way. It is completely consistent with how Jesus fed the five thousand. It is heading in that direction, that spirit. You either get this, or you just aren't given by God to comprehend it. That's the way it is.
What Do People Deserve?
The question is whether or not the people deserve the Commons. If they deserve it, they'll have it. If they don't deserve it, they won't soften. Their spirit will harden, and they'll get what they deserve — what they've been dishing out, which isn't good but very evil and punishing.
Keeping Helping and Also Help the Commons: As one
Various people are helping others right now. The Commons (Heaven) doesn't say stop. It says continue helping people, but do what you are able to do to help to break the cycle of the unrighteous money by converting it into the Christian Commons where not all of it will flow back into the vicious cycle of selfishness that is at the heart of capitalism, which system denies the miraculous power of God and rather wants the people fooled into placing all their faith in money (for the sake of the greedy, the evil ones, devils, literally).
For those who want to understand more about translating money into the system where money is no longer needed, see our series: "Libertarian Capitalism: False Shepherds," beginning with the article, "Cato Antichrist: Part 1: Anti-Environmentalism is Evil." In that series, we spell out with New Testament justification how even money itself is an inherently evil system that Jesus does not use in his Heaven.
What's Is a Name? Denominations, Sect
You wrote in an earlier comment, "We [your wife and you] do not believe in joining or committing membership to any Christian denomination or sect. We belong solely to Jesus Christ and are part of the Body of Christ." That suggests that you are leading people to believe that if they are real and liberal and Christian and of the Church, they do not belong only to the Church that Jesus founded. We have the name "Real Liberal Christian Church," because it expresses that there are people going about who are not real by virtue of their standing against working together to bring forth abundantly for all and hence not Christian which necessarily means not of the universal Church. In other words, you can't even call yourself Christian without making the statement thereby that you are denominated. Christianity is the name of the religion. That name separates Christians from non-Christians. Also, the Real Liberal Christian Church is only sectarian in the minds of those who don't understand that all the false shepherds misleading all the flocks calling themselves Christians (meaning leading them into greed, violence, sexual harm, or any other form of ultimate harm and selfishness) have misappropriated the name of Jesus. It has become necessary to say that Christianity is only real liberalism. That is the only Church. It is necessary to be of that mind to be Christian. You though have rejected that. You don't believe that. You hold against it. You're wrong to do so, and we tell you so.
Denomination means name that distinguishes. It designates a group. It begins to apply immediately to one cell, as it did with Christ. The more cells there are, the more value it has for identifying the large grouping. Where two or more are gathered in his name, there he is. However, a Christian is an individual person. Did he mean that he is not where there is just one Christian? That's the kind of question you started out asking us. It was fine until you balked at the answers that were justified.
He is where he abodes. He lives in each. However, his context for saying that wherever two or more are gathered is to encourage the gathering of the flock by a then new name that was to come: Christian. The point is gathering, gathering for specific purposes that were not all stated in the writings of Paul because we are here now and he was speaking largely of events to occur during his immediate generation: The wrath to come in the form of the Romans, which it did, as Jesus accurately predicted, of course. Jesus though was speaking of more than one context and generation at a time.
He was speaking about Rome coming to do what it did because the Jews wouldn't listen to Jesus and do as he was telling them. He was though also speaking to us who are here long after Rome did that great tribulation to the apostate Jews. We are still tasked though with doing what he told them to do, because the correctness of it is still valid and always will be right into his Heaven where Jesus's principles are in use.
You are preaching against gathering for one of the purposes of Jesus, which is a synergistic piece of work that is the feeding of his lambs and sheep, his spiritual family first and foremost and all others, as God does. Everyone can do his or her little bit apart, but the group effort is absolutely synergistic and supported by God. The division and organization of labor and each being of the same spiritual goal of getting the mundane job done first, thereby, results in all entering into each other's labor of sowing and reaping. That brings forth abundantly when done correctly that is with respect for the gift of the land that God has provided for the very purpose. You, however, go against this grain. You don't go with this flow of the Holy Spirit. You complain about it as if it's wrong.
You wrote in an earlier comment that you're going to go into ministry fulltime. So to avoid hypocrisy, you're ministry won't have a name, right?
The Call to Charge
You also said our "calling is not to change anyone. Nor is our calling to change society. We just shine the Light." That diminishes change. That weakens the call to change. Changing the heart is what a real Christian calls upon others to do. We call upon the hardhearted to soften to giving and share all with all. Are you against that? If we say things to convince others to so change, that's a good thing. That's what Jesus wants. We are of the right spirit when we do that consistent with all of Jesus's teachings and works: To be Christlike, to do as he did, as God does. That is shining the light. We are anointed with power to spread the saving way and do the saving work. That way and work are one. They are faith and works as one, each requisite for the other. Christianity is to change people and the world. It does and will. The thrust of your direction doesn't lead to emphasis upon coming together or doing works. Your message leads to disintegration and to the opposite of the synergism that will occur while you're left behind not understanding all the cooperation. You aren't spreading the message of acting in concert. You're spreading everyone being a soloist apart. There is a time for solos, but there is a time for concerted effort. We are for forming the concert of harmony.
Charge is turning, repenting, and atoning.
You say you attend a congregation. How is it known? What words are used in referring to it? That is its name. Are you members but not really? Does that group, that congregation, somehow hold to a better vision than does the Real Liberal Christian Church? Are they against our plan? Are they and you against our vision of Heaven and against bringing that vision to fruition on the Earth? Are you all saying that we don't hold with Jesus, that our vision isn't his also?
You also wrote in an earlier comment, "We do agree with you that in order to serve the Lord Jesus we must do good works on a daily basis. But we do not do those works in order to achieve salvation."
We Aren't Roman Catholics
What are you so worried about? Serving the flock is serving Jesus. You press this issue about works and salvation at us as if we're Roman Catholics selling indulgences. We aren't anywhere near that, as any honest reading of our writings will confirm. We aren't Roman Catholics. We don't subscribe to their obvious broken Apostolic Succession, what with, among other evil signs, all their pedophile priests. We are in favor of The Bible having been printed in English and all the other languages and continuing to do so. We don't believe the bishop of Rome is the infallible one in matters of faith. We believe Rome was Constantine I, who ruined that church with plenty of help.
We Aren't Protestants or Secular Humanists
However, just because we don't hold with the Roman Catholicism, doesn't mean we hold with Protestantism. We don't. We know that the Protestant leaders didn't return to the original faith of Jesus. In their fervor against the errors of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, they simply went in the other direction on the same mundane spectrum. If selling indulgences was bad, then faith alone is the extreme opposite so it must be right they thought and think incorrectly. The truth is that faith and work always go together. There is never faith without works, and teaching is also work. There can be ostensible good deeds without faith, but part of good works includes teaching about faith. So where there is the full complement of good works, there is always the imparting of faith, so not to fear. Just require both, and you're fine. You don't have to harp on works without faith to the faithful. We aren't secular humanists, Quazi. Stop speaking at us as if we are. It's offensive. It harms the cause of Christ. It is divisive for no good reason.
If the mainstream, major Protestants understood, they would have brought forth the Commons. They didn't. They didn't get it. Their traditional followers still don't.
The Error of the So-Called Fundamentalists
Most of those Protestants took an arbitrary contextual line that excluded other contexts that were Jesus's and plain to see. They termed their system "Fundamentalism" and "literal." They declared their interpretations the only acceptable interpretations. They ignored or diminished Jesus's figurative language. From that, they came up with all sorts of wrong conclusions causing problems from then to now and that will continue to do so until overturned. It is they who took things out of the fuller context.
Perfection is being good all the time. That is saving. God saves, and God is good: Perfect. Jesus said be that way. That's how he had the power. That's how the power came down and entered the Apostles. When Christians started deviating, the power was lost. Do you have it? Do you have the power of the laying on of hands? The people to be healed have to have the faith. They have to have enough faith.
Money Silences: Break Through
There is healing that goes on that comes from faith, but look at how little there is and how unconnected it is with the wider world. The world doesn't spread the news the way it used to. The evil hearted have perfected ostracism. They turn people into isolated islands unable to be heard without outlandishness or huge quantities of the unrighteous money that the selfish monopolize, literally. Even that method of outlandishness is being dried up by new rules to silence all dissent. Evil (money) is seeking to clamp down harder and harder. You aren't helping to break through with your attitude against the Real Liberal Christian Church.
We are a voice speaking truth that the powers that be seek to silence through all manner of means. You're playing right into their hands. You aren't calling for people to help strengthen the voice by coming together as a network to speak with uniformity for all those things for which we stand and against those things that stand against us. You're harming the cause by not being part of it. You're calling this cause other than of God. That's a disservice to all who would benefit so greatly by the success of this movement of the Holy Spirit of truth.
We Believe in the Works of Jesus
Quazi, we are not a Protestant-Pauline church as those churches have come up and are temporally established. We are not disciples of Luther or Calvin. They were wrong. The pacifist Anabaptists were closer to the kingdom by far, but their tenets still are not as close as are the tenets of the Real Liberal Christian Church, else we'd have joined the Anabaptists.
We believe in works, small and huge, cooperative, non-competitive works. We believe in emphasizing such works and giving all credit to our God, who is the God of Jesus. All of Jesus's works were of God. Jesus's exceeding faith is why God did what God did through Jesus. We are against all those who place so much emphasis upon piety that it becomes false and the power to do works dies and the work goes undone, which it has, obviously.
The Right Response
What you should have written is that the Commons is a good idea, not just "looks like" a good idea. Also, here's a little bit to help [and you could for the price of a pizza a month or something] even if just to be the first couple brave enough to go out on the dance floor. Also, we [Saijah and Quazi] will spread the word to encourage others to help with whatever they are able, even if it is only a few dollars a month, since every little bit will help add up to enough to obtain some land to put to the use of the cause of bringing forth to feed the working lambs and sheep [I being also one of those poor workers], and those hungry [you care about]. Also, I will encourage those who cannot give to at least speak in support of the good idea. You didn't do that though. You stuck around to try to kill it, to send the message to those who would read your comments that they ought not to help. Therefore, you are responsible for all those who would have benefited spiritually and otherwise sooner by the help of people you've influence not to help.
You see, we don't go around telling people not to help others in concert while claiming to be Christians. We tell people to help us divert and translate from evil causes, such as greedy, violent, selfish, harmful causes. If all the money that is being poured out for evil ends, including for overeating, were rather unselfishly to be channeled through the Christian Commons Project, think about all the land that would be converted to the righteous cause. Think about all the abundance and benefit to all those who otherwise are neglected and abused, etc., by the current system that encourages over-consumption (excess), and all the rest of the evil it spews. Yet, you stand against us. You write against us. You have some hidden and selfish reason for that. You haven't recognized it in yourself, or you are knowingly the ravening wolf in sheep's clothing.
We Don't Trumpet: Don't Presume
You don't know how much we've given to this cause. You don't know where we were or what we possessed or where it went and why. People can just think about what behavior on our part would be consistent with what we're calling for. We haven't been inconsistent, Quazi. We aren't saying we've been perfect. We're still learning. God though knows our heart.
Are the only people you imagine who have given for the right reason are those who trumpet? Bill Gates trumpets. He has a fleet of public relations people making sure he gets good press. He has also given nearly nothing when compared with the little old lady who gave everything, even her whole living, as Jesus said.
You don't know what hardships we've undergone or the abuse or scorn we've received on account of this very ministry. You don't know the people we've seen die because of sin. Yet you presume to judge us as if we don't know anything about homelessness or going hungry or being beaten or abused or the like. You don't know the violence we've seen. You don't know the threats we've endured. You don't know all the people we've known and what we know about what they've been through. You are much too presumptuous about us.
Just because we don't tell you all the stories we know, just because we don't wear everything on our sleeve, you presume.
I am very disturbed with your usage of scripture, you have a habit of taking scripture completely out of context and twisting it to suit your own agenda. Are you God that your word is mightier?
Started From the Beginning
You accuse out of what you don't know. We were not converted to Christianity or Communism or real communism (that is real Christianity) or pacifism or sexual purity before we started seeking answers. We didn't seek out verses in The Bible to take them out of context or otherwise to support any preconceived ideas. We started from the very beginning: From scratch. We did that, because the status quo assumptions always turned out to be misleading: Waste. The current system is wrong. We followed all the leads of all the main philosophies and religions and ideologies. They kept coming up with dead ends. Only the train of thought in the Gospels led to all the necessary cross-referencing to the end that was not dead but will work perfectly. Some cross-referencing had already been noted by others. Much had not.
We were led by the Holy Spirit, for who else would lead us to such a root makeover from our ignorance as to our own sin (harm we didn't even realize we were doing, harm we mistakenly took for God blessing us) from where we started?
Missing Using Scripture
It is said that any case can be made with verses, taking them out of context and interpreting them to support a cause. That does not describe our process. It doesn't describe Jesus's, although we know that is exactly what many Talmudists argue about Jesus's interpretations of how he is described and predicted by scripture. They are wrong about Jesus, and you are wrong about us. You have mischaracterized what we have done and what we are doing.
Accusing From Darkness
You don't grasp the fuller context, so according to you, we're taking things out of context and twisting. Even many of Jesus's enemies in his face didn't make so bold. You call our plan maybe "a good idea," but you call it our "own agenda" as if it isn't God's though it's good. You're digging your own hole, Quazi.
My own agenda you say. It is not my own agenda as if I am alone in this. God and Jesus have this agenda. That's the only reason we have it.
You ask whether we are God and mightier. You say you believe in Jesus. Jesus said the kingdom dwells within. He said he is the Son of God. He said we are all to be one. What is that one? Is it not God? Do we not have God living in us? Are we not incarnate? How can we be mightier than the God living in us? You preach against that spirit of oneness. You preach against the Gospel of John by any interpretation.
Substantiate Your Allegations
Mightier than what, the interpretation you've bought? Your question also implies without basis that we are usurpers of God. Back up your statement. Show us where we've written anything indicating any evidence for this scorn of yours.
Copying the Pharisees and Sadducees, etc.
You attack the way they attacked Jesus. You evade his logic, just as they did. You refuse to answer, just as they did. You use the same style. They accused without any evidence, just as you do. What Jesus had said openly contradicted their accusations. The same applies with us concerning you. You are completely without justification in deriding the Christian Commons.
Consider this, Quazi. If Heaven is a Commons and you say the Christian Commons isn't Heaven, you won't be there. You'll be with those who reject the Commons. Here's some prophesying for you, Quazi. The world will be saved and made new. When it is, it will be the New Heaven on the New Earth and it will be the Christian Commons, the real Commons.
The Job of the Church
Our job is to do everything we can to prepare the way. That's the job of every Christian in unity. We are to come together. We are to conflate around Jesus's teaching, example, and commandments, which includes feeding all his lambs and sheep in the flesh (without necessarily expecting everyone to instantly be transported to the level of faith shown at the feeding of the five thousand), something that hasn't been being done. If as Christians we can't do it in the flesh, how are we to be accounted worthy to share in the power that can do it in spirit?
Standing By the Liberal Device
We've devised the liberal device that solves the problem of feeding all the lambs and sheep and we stand by it. If you choose to stand against it, so be it. You've made your choice. It will come to fruition sooner or later though with or without you. If you change your mind, let us know.
The false-hearted, churlish, leaders don't move the flock to do it. They rather lord it over them and make themselves rich in the unrighteous money. They create greater and greater scarcity. They skim off from the labors of others for themselves and not to further God's work. They give some here and there as a false show, to further deceive. They don't bring forth abundance. They will fall.
That's prophesying against them as a son of God Quazi. You don't hear it that way though. With you, it can't be.
Harmless Always Refers to All Harm
When Jesus told us to be gentle as doves, He was not referring to sexual immorality as you are so fond of spouting,
Get thee behind me, Satan. Christians are to do no harm, period. If some sexual behavior is harmful, it is wrong. If you don't like that, then you aren't a Christian. You can stand there before your maker claiming that being harmless doesn't refer also to being sexually harmless and I'll stand there saying it does, and we'll see. Are you sure you don't want to repent of your statement? Are you going to stand on it to the death? That would be a big mistake. We seek to gain our brother. Are you our brother in Christ or not?
Old Testament or New
What New Testament scripture do you use (other than the ones we use) to justify your position that homosexuality is a sin if you are so wise as to come here to instruct us as to where we are wrong? Answer or stop presuming to correct us. It becomes tedious to deal with people who evade substantiating their allegations. Do you use only Old Testament justifications without tying them in with the teaching of Jesus? If you do, you will be faced with having to justify all Old Testament laws as being applicable today for you. Are you an Old Testament Jew or a New Testament Christian? You can't be both at the same time. Holding to the laws of Moses is to violate the laws of Jesus. Moses said stone them. Jesus said only if you are sinless. Yet, stoning itself is even sin. There is no way you are living according to all the laws of Moses, so you'll have to justify your Christian position that homosexuality is sin based upon the New Testament. That we have already done, but you've already rejected it. Now where are you? Justify yourself if your so wise as to come here to correct us. Straighten us out where we are crooked, Quazi, or stop, turn, and help.
Separating the Righteous from Evil
What line do you draw from the message of Jesus for separating the goats from the sheep if you don't use the same line that we do, which is harm versus harmless? Tell us. Is there harm in the Heaven of Jesus Christ, Quazi? Christianity is the religion of calling all souls to do no wrathful acts, because where there is no harm, there is no wrath to come. That's what Jesus came to say. He said stop being harmful and you won't face your own incorrect system. What we do is reflected back at us for our own edification and salvation or damnation as we choose to believe and act accordingly, according to our works. We are judged according to our own works whether you think Paul said otherwise or not.
What Is Your Device?
You stand against the Commons as leading to Heaven (which is a commons, the Commons). How then do you propose to feed all the lambs and sheep? You're hell bent for putting down our real liberal device by which we stand, as Isaiah prophesied, as he prophesied about the coming of Jesus, but you offer nothing in it's place to do the job.
Witnessing to the Homeless and Hungry but Leaving Them Homeless and Hungry
Jesus doesn't want everyone to be homeless, Quazi. He doesn't just want people witnessing to the homeless and leaving them out on the street. He isn't about dragging people off the streets, but he does want his designated shepherds devising and executing real liberal devices for lifting up the homeless who are given to accept it. Do you dispute this? Where's your justification? Where is your better way? We understand that you have helped people, but why are you against the Commons, since it would help more people, many more if it receives the necessary support?
Jesus had no nest or den when he started his public ministry. Yet, he said, "I was a stranger and you took me in." He was saying that about those who ended up sharing their homes with him saying in effect, "My house is your house," as all real Christians would. He was saying that about those who end up sharing their homes with members of his flock saying in effect, "My house is your house," as all real Christians will.
Was he a burden?
Therefore, Christians should come together in spirit, which also means apart in spirit from the wide path of the secularists, to create the Christian Commons (many places) where the unselfish homeless (converts) may own collectively and give and share and have the plot of ground to grow food and in turn give their surplus to those yet homeless and hungry and where people with money may donate, even when they too share in the bounty, (but the food won't be priced but free)? Why not support this Church that has it mapped out? This Church is ready to do the work necessary to bring it to fruition.
Yes, the selfish will complain that this free system is ruining their selfish system. They will rant and rave to the powers that be to do everything they can to ruin the Christian undertaking. The Christian Commons though is the free exercise of the Christianity written in the Gospels.
Quazi, the people have been acting on your individualist interpretations for how many centuries now? Where's the finished product that when the spirit of Jesus returns he finds us all doing what he left as his blueprint?
The plans laid down by the powers that be have resulted in planned chaos (divide and conquer) by which they continue to magnify their evil, selfishly lording it over the people and justifying it with bad interpretations of the message of Jesus.
Your voice is weak to nonexistent when it comes to calling for changing course. You even say you don't call people to change or to change society. How un-Christlike is that? Yes everyone must do his or her part everywhere he or she happens to be, but coming together is his message. He didn't preach just doing things the way you are suggesting. His message was for more.
We aren't saying that everyone must gather physically in one physical spot. We are saying that everyone must gather spiritually around one vision that mandated we feed all his lambs and sheep. Your writing doesn't emphasize that. It deemphasizes it to the point of nonexistence.
No Harm is No Sin
He was talking to the 12 disciples. Are you implying these 12 were gay? Or even bi-, considering Peter was married?
How you jumped from my saying that harmlessness is what Jesus called for fulltime and that homosexuality is anti-Christian (since it is harmful) to even imagining for a moment that I was implying that the disciples were homosexuals is beyond me. That leap was unfounded and very disorderly. Don't you learn about people's hearts after reading so much of what they have to say? How have you not figured out what is consistent with us?
Jesus was telling them to be as perfect as possible, as perfect as they were capable of being. He told them to do no harm, no sin of any kind.
Also, since you brought it up, what sins had the disciples done before they entered into the service of God under Jesus's tutelage? They had not been perfect. It doesn't list all their sins. It lists some. Regardless, it was a blanket statement by Jesus covering all sin. He said, go and spread the word and don't do any sinning (harming) in the process. It is irrelevant to your point as to what sin each had committed before that. They were being made strait from out of whatever dark place they were coming and being drawn.
Were there men healed of their sexual sins? Does the Gospel have to list every disease he cured? We are confident that there were men who had engaged in homosexuality who were healed by the message and their new found, real faith. If you choose to think otherwise, that's up to you.
If you are going to take each commandment he gave and then leave each out when he taught another time and didn't specifically mention every commandment, you aren't going to get the whole message. That is the mistake you are making and have been making since you first visited our site.
Look, the first Great Commandment contains within it the prohibition against homosexual behavior. That's why adhering to it is to not violate any law. The whole law is one rule. Be harmless. Be beneficial. Be unselfish. Be giving of all. These are one rule, Quazi. Don't you see that? It's fundamental to the faith. When Jesus said be harmless as doves, he wasn't breaking up the one rule. To be harmless as doves is to be adhering to the Greatest Commandment. Do you really not see that, yet you call yourself a Christian? Homosexual acts are sins against God. They are finally unloving acts. Jesus never broke up the rule. That's the whole point. That's how we know what to do. That's why the Christian Commons is a good idea that needs support, including yours for your sake and the sake of the many.
Why the World Will Be Saved
Yes, he was warning them to be aware, but he told them that if they did what he said they'd be fine and they were. That too is part of the message, it is part of being aware, for if we do what he said to do (be harmless and only beneficial) we too will be fine. The nation, the people, the family, whether bloodline, spiritual, or both, that does all together without dissention all that he said that ought to be done will be saved, be redeemed, be delivered, and enter Heaven. No one else will enter that level of Heaven. If the whole people of the Earth turn together, all will be saved and fine. That's guaranteed. That's a promised from God I share with you. Do you doubt it? Do you doubt it comes from the Holy Spirit and not from men? Do you have the faith to answer correctly?
Also, contrary to what you wrote, the message was received very well. That's why the powers that be murdered him. They did it his way, not yours. They did it uniformly. They did it in sync. You preach against doing things in sync. You preach against the cooperative and collective way. You preach against the whole.
Israel Destroyed and Scattered Again
The nation of the Jews was ruined and scattered for the very reason that their leaders didn't come together. They were contrarians. They went against the clear direction of the greatest prophet they ever had visit them. Now here you are preaching against coming together in the spirit of that greatest prophet. We are saying come together while you are saying stay apart. Are you so confident of yourself that you want to remain standing on your spot? You better move: Change.
Things in Context
As for taking things out of context, when he said, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her, was that an isolated context or was he giving a blanket statement against capital punishment and punishment in general? Do you think he was referring only to the sin of adultery and that it is okay with him to commit capital punishment or any punishment for other sins? Take the context to mean that punishment by the hands of sinners is just more sinning.
When he said, ...resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also, was that a blanket statement against violent defense or was that somehow reserved for some isolated context within your mind? Then what are wars? Are they ever just?
When he said, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me, and when he also said Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect, were those qualified statements, or were they blanket statements covering all occasions, times, and places? What then are money, banks, usury, taxes, capitalism, private property, and all the rest of the secular notions? He had much to say about all of these things, and we've elaborated on them all for the edification of our visitors with the view that sooner or later those who are receptive will see it and be moved to help synergistically by entering into each other's labors through the Church as it was and is meant to be and out of their genuine spirit of fulltime unselfishness.
When he said, And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day, was he saying that the sin of Sodom was sin forever or was it just sin in the time of Abraham and Jesus only to now be authorized and called a healthy alternative lifestyle? Then what is homosexuality and what are all the other forms of sexual behavior outside faithful marriage between one man and one woman?
Was Jesus Boasting?
If you are observant, you will see the words "mighty works." You will see that he did works that showed. Do you accuse your own savior of boasting himself, a la Paul? The works came from God. We have made clear to you time and again that we give all credit to God. What we say to you though is going in one ear and out the other. Is it over your head? Are you standing real watch, or are you secretly working for the enemy even if subconsciously?
Heaven is the place where there is not capital punishment or any punishment, where there are no poor or rich but rather everyone is fed, etc., and where there is no harm, including sexual, even where our kind is transformed to no longer using sex to bring forth flesh because all flesh is transformed into immortality.
The Commons is the place where there is not capital punishment or any punishment, where there are no poor or rich but rather everyone is fed, etc., and where there is no harm, including sexual. It is a necessary spiritual precursor to the ultimate transformation of humanity. We are in a womb of sorts. We are becoming.
Warning is Love
Jesus commanded us to love each other. My question to you is this: How are you showing the Love of God with your anti-gay rhetoric? God is longsuffering towards is in His Love. Yes, He wants us to be perfected, but He is patient in this process. Remember this: He judges us after we die, not before.
What have we said about homosexuality that offends you? Be specific. Why are you offended for the homosexuals?
Warning is required. Warning is love. That's what watching is. That's what sounding the alarm is. If you see the error fatal to souls coming and you don't sound the alarm, you are culpable. Now, you admit that you are aware of the fatal error that is homosexuality, but you want to characterize our warning as evil.
Patients and Impatients
You fail to see Jesus's impatients with his patients. He was both. Patients runs out. It is why wrath from Satan comes. He was impatient for people to see that, even while he forgave from the cross. Can you reconcile those two things? You won't if you refuse to see the fuller context. Explain it if you are able; otherwise, why do you assume authority to come here preaching at us as you do? Tell us something we don't already know. Stop being an expert in the partial-truth obvious.
Those who don't really love don't warn. They just let others fall into temptation and be harmed and to harm others. It is evil not to warn. It is evil to harm. It is more evil still to do it knowingly. Homosexuality is harmful. The time to turn from homosexuality is always — the sooner the better.
You speak as if there is no urgency to save homosexuals who will turn. They are dying each day. You speak as if there is no urgency to save children from the slippery, secular slope where it won't be long before pedophiles are demanding the same rights as homosexuals. Don't forget, the secular state claims to own you. It claims total authority over you. It doesn't believe in God.
California Not Eden Again but Shameful
Look at the changes in the laws that are being put through. Public elementary school restrooms in California, which can be large restrooms holding many children at once are now what, coed? Any boy who wants to go into the girl's restroom may, because he identifies himself as a female in who knows what way. This isn't being promoted by those who are reentering Eden where no one is ashamed of his or her nakedness because none sin. This is breaking down the wall of separation between sin and righteousness so that there won't be any righteousness left. This is why Isaiah said that when salvation comes, "The vile person shall no longer be called liberal," because they aren't really liberal (bringing forth abundance) but rather what is vile (unhealthy, unwholesome). The trend in California is away from wholesomeness and toward vileness. Do you see now Isaiah 32:5 opening up to you? This is what we've been saying.
The meaning of the term "liberal" has been twisted to license what is illiberal. No abundance will come out of unwholesomeness, only ruination and desolation and scarcity. The same holds true for churlishness, which is stinginess, which is the opposite of the Commons.
Tribulation is Individual Lives
Also, don't forget that the wrath comes suddenly. It doesn't just apply to the Great Tribulation. It also applies within each person's life individually before that tribulation. People are being taken in their iniquity every hour every day. Those who haven't been prepared won't enter. Jesus was in a hurry even as he was patient. We are to bring forth the Commons (Heaven) in patients and with perseverance and withstanding persecution. We are though to do it and not to procrastinate or dilute. Your words on this site have not been helpful. They aid procrastination. They aid in dilution.
Don't Ingratiate with Sinners: Turn them
Ingratiating yourself with the homosexuals is not the way to warn them. It is not alarming them and others. Do you doubt that Jesus was an alarmist with good reason? Saving just one person is worth sounding an alarm if that's the only way to get the person's attention, isn't it?
The Walking Dead: Judged
Who "judges us after we die"? The truth has already judged. Read it. Those who hate Jesus and don't really believe that God saves are already dead. They've been judged. Can they come back to life? Yes. That's forgiveness. You come here making sweeping, incorrect statements all the while with your agenda that is to dissuade people from helping us. Yet, neither Jesus nor God judges. The truth judges. Jesus is the truth. I am not taking anything out of context here. It falls to you as an individual to reconcile these things by learning the contexts, plural, as one. You will never understand how things ultimately ought to be unless you do.
If you know more than we do about these things, then interpret better how Jesus doesn't judge, yet is the truth, while the truth judges. If you don't know and can't tell us, don't attempt to instruct us, because it's fundamental and you don't know the basics.
We are all for people sharing what will add, but you come and detract.
All Sin in Not Equal
All sin carries the same penalty - death. Jesus said God hates divorce. Lies, murder, adultery, idolatry... its is all equal.
Who taught you that error? You need to stop listening to that voice. You need to tell that voice it's wrong.
Listen carefully now. Jesus didn't say all sin is equal. He said very clearly that sin is relative. He said there will be a different number of stripes for different sinners. The debts vary according to the acts. He said some have greater sins than others do.
Multiple Contexts as One
Quazi, you're making up things out of your imagination that are not supported by what Jesus taught or you're repeating garbage you've been fed and eaten from others who also don't know what they are talking about. You are not seeing the multiple contexts as one.
That is the consistent error within the churches that argue over things at cross-purposes out of arrogance and ignorance while all the things that ought to be done are left undone. It was the problem when Constantine I became the usurper of Christianity and put it to his evil cause of worldly Empire with its violence and greed and no doubt sexual depravity hiding right around the corner, as we've seen in so many of the Roman Catholic priests.
Christian-Zionism: Pinnacle, Immediate Problem
Homosexuality is not the pinnacle of a sin pyramid. Sin is sin. Plain and simple. Not to mention that he who breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments.
We haven't said this. In fact, we've said that currently it is Christian-Zionism that is the pinnacle, immediate problem. See for yourself. "Cato Antichrist: Part 9: Caveat Emptor: Jesus Has Warned." That will change.
Without the so-called Christian Zionist sycophants, the evil neoconservatives, the Machiavellians, would not have the backing they need to launch yet another abominable war or to continue the abominable wars they are waging now. They are not Christians. They seek to save their lives rather than to lose them in the name of Jesus and thereby truly gain life in the highest. Why have you not stood openly against them with us? Do you fear for your flesh life more than you love the truth?
The Thieves Are the Problem: Face Them
Whether you realize it or not, you are standing against us as we stand foursquare against the thieves of the rightful inheritance of everyone, including you, and as we seek to regain that inheritance by peacefully depriving the thieves of the cover of darkness. Don't you care that there are homeless and hungry only because of the thieves and abusers and liars, etc.? Do you know that Christians are to stand up to them and even face them down?
You don't come to say we are right about anything other than with your half-hearted, hardly lukewarm, statement that the Commons "looks like a good idea." Where do you stand on all the crucial positions we've taken. Why have you remained silent on those and only peek out to negatively criticize our exactly critique of homosexuality?
Nevertheless, you are wrong that all sins are of equal weight. They are not. Jesus himself said that the Jews have the greater sin than did Pontius Pilate. Do you dispute your own professed savior?
As for breaking the least and thereby breaking the greatest, the point is consistency and against hypocrisy. We have said nothing that disagrees with that. Perfection is the absence of all selfishness of heart. It is pure beneficence. That's the real God.
Running Down Charitable Donations
If you truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you.
Do you go around the Internet looking for people who are asking for charitable donations for group causes to tell each paid executive director of the given charity to quit his or her job? Do you do that concerning every church and every preacher? Do you tell them to stop asking for or taking up collections and that if they "truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you," or have you just reserved this spiteful teaching of yours for the Real Liberal Christian Church?
As we mentioned above, you've said you're going to go into ministry fulltime. So to avoid hypocrisy, in addition to having no name for your ministry, you're also going to avoid asking for or taking donations because that would be other people empowering you to do works, right?
Do you advocate for everyone to be as you are? I hope they aren't. That's not to say you don't have some redeeming qualities that could be the start of the end of hypocrisy in you. I know you want your heart in the right place, but you have to repent of what you've come here to do and have done, which has been short-sighted and ignoble.
You also shared in your comments some examples of the works you call good that you've done or that your, as yet unnamed, congregation has done. What makes you think that we haven't helped others? Why do you assume that? Do you assume it because we haven't boasted about it? Please explain. Have you ever heard of doing thine alms in secret? At the same time, we aren't being secretive. We are being open. When we walk down the street though, we aren't broadcasting to be seen of men. We don't stand on the street corners sounding a trumpet about our works. We walk, "as it were in secret." When it's time to say our position, we say it. We aren't hard-sell salespeople. We don't put our foot in private doors uninvited. These things are consistent with Jesus's mentality that we gladly share with him. It isn't forced. It comes naturally. The truth comes out in a truthful way only.
Go Do? We Are
Jesus is a person. Who do you think has empowered us to create the website and to call people? What do you mean go do it? What do you think we're doing? That's what this is — doing it. We are calling people to come together while you aren't. That's what we've been charged by God to do — Conflate them. Why don't you want others to help us? What do you fear losing by people helping us? You do fear it.
We Have a Mouth from Jesus
Also, who's empowered you to come here to attempt to make us fall, to gainsay, to put us down? Do you think it is Jesus or Satan? Listen Quazi, I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. You haven't won here. Are you understanding that? You're just being exposed. You're tangling yourself in your talk. You're eating your words. It isn't we who have caused it. You came here wrapped in sheep's clothing seeking to put out our light, to consume it, to devour us. You wrote what you can't defend. Your arguments against us are being demolished here in public. That's why you were sent here. It's up to you whether or not you'll learn from it or just become hardened.
More Hypocrisy Exposed
Who empowers the congregation of which you said you are a member but not really? Do they not give money they possess to further their collective ideas? It is completely hypocritical of you to come here to say to us that we are wrong for passing the collection plate that people will then be sharing fruits that we might then continue laboring for the sake of many, many more, even everyone if they'll accept it. You speak to thwart. You come as the enemy in sheep's clothing. Why do make yourself that?
You wrote in an earlier comment that you want to start a commune that you'll call communal rather than communism, apparently in fear of the pejorative. Will this place have no name and ask for no donations? Do you feel your hypocrisy? Does it make you angry at us or yourself? You need to sort things out. You need to do some soul searching to see just how selfish versus unselfish your heart really is. You need to reflect. Look in the mirror. Get rid of your beam before you probed for a splinter in us, please.
What Spirit is Against the Commons?
The Real Liberal Christian Church and its Christian Commons is the means for many to focus their efforts together as no other device that has been historically offered. What's wrong with that? Why do you work against it? What spirit is against it? How can that spirit be good?
The first Apostles, those Paul called the Super Apostles, labored fulltime in the ministry. No disciple felt put upon for aiding in their keep. They understood the different parts of the body to keep the whole.
The question is one of system. There is the current worldly system that does not bring forth but rather makes things worse and hoards. Then there is the system called for by Jesus that will bring forth abundance for all. The current system (antichrist) is based upon false private property where people force their way into the labors of others. Then there is the system advocated by the anarcho-capitalists (antichrist) where the fruits of one's labor belong solely to that one. Then there is the truth (Christian) where all voluntarily enter into each other's labor. From that true system will flow abundance and not scarcity. It is the true economics. It is the true way. It is the way the house that is the Earth and Universe ought to be run.
You say the Commons is a good idea, but go do something other than what we have been doing. Listen, Quazi, when you know what you're talking about, we'll take instruction from you. Right now, you are no shepherd for any Christian.
Enter Into Each Other's Labor
As for people, we are to enter into each other's labors to bring forth on a huge scale. We are to do it individually together in a collective, a synergistic effort, just like what develops from the tiny mustard seed, a giant tree of many cells all of which acting together in faith provides for the many who aren't even all of the tree. Please don't fail this time to see the fuller context concerning the parable of the faith of the mustard seed. Jesus congregated them and then sent them with one message and one plan with one outcome. Why do you come around saying everything you can to thwart the Commons?
His ways of doing this is marvelous. I met a guy on the bus who had had such a heart for the homeless, but was unable to meet them on their level. So God made this man homeless. When I spoke to him, he was praising God for his homelessness because it equipped him to be able to minister to the homeless. I have met people that used their prosperity to adopt children with developmental disabilities.
What's your point? Does it prove Jesus doesn't want the Commons? It does not. Satan can rattle off a list of people helping people from the poor to the rich. Do you think we haven't met people who have helped people? George W. Bush has help people before. That doesn't mean his way is right and the Commons is wrong.
More Hypocrisy Exposed
Why do you assume that this person on the bus or this person with possessions has received a calling but we have not? Why are they right in your book to continue, but you tell us to change even when you said in an earlier comment that you don't seek to change people. You're being hypocritical all over the place, Quazi — Really!
Everyone is to do his or her best. Everyone is to hear and see that for which Jesus called. He instructed his inner circle that they are tasked with seeing to it that the flock is fed. Where are the shepherds that any of the flock ever goes hungry let alone starves to death by the tens of thousands while those shepherd stay disunited and enrich themselves?
Heaven or Hell of What?
Are you afraid of those false shepherds on high placed their by the rebellious one in Heaven? You do believe in the rebellious one don't you? Heaven is big. Heaven has competing kingdoms. That's a context, Quazi. One kingdom is Hell. You figure out the connotations yourself for once. The exercise for your brain will be good for you — seriously. If you try in earnest and still can't get it, let me know.
When Works Show Worth
I will end on this note: Salvation is found in God's mercy, not in trying to show our worth.
Whether you like it or not, you show your worth. The sheep and goats are divided according to those who remain iniquitous versus those who bring forth together as one flock. The sheep are worth more than the goats. The branches that bear good fruit are purged. The branches that bear rotten fruit are cut off and burned up, because they are worthless in terms of bringing forth the real fruit. It sounds as if you think Jesus was wasting his breath telling people to bring forth.
Why the Repetitive Accusations: Big Lie
Why are you accusing us of boasting? Upon what are you basing your accusation? We know that's your accusation, because you are speaking from Paul absent Jesus. You've been doing that since your first comment. Wherever your interpretation of Paul doesn't jibe with the teaching of Jesus, you've gone ahead anyway with your interpretation of Paul. You don't admit it though. You keep harping at us that we are committing the sin of pride and bragging. Why? Substantiate your allegations against us. Show where we have done this sin. Upon what are you basing this position of yours? What have we written that you've read that show us prideful or bragging? If you haven't seen it, why are you harping on it, Quazi? Why are you bearing false witness against us? Where have you gotten the idea that our motives are selfish?
As for salvation not being in showing one's worth, you have ignored all along everything we've shown you that Jesus said that makes clear that your position is wrong. Showing is what Jesus did. He told them to believe his works. When we point to this, you evade it. If we are wrong, then tell us how Jesus was wrong. He showed God. He showed his worth: Inestimable. He didn't do it selfishly or it wouldn't have been inestimable. He also showed God's mercy and grace and his faith in God. He did all of those things simultaneously. He was no burden, and people gave into his treasury while he did not hold down a job under the money interests of his day. Show us where we are wrong or stop, one or the other.
Do you know what showing means? Do you know what it means in the language of the revelation of Jesus Christ? Don't bother looking for it in Paul. You won't find it there without an unnecessary stretch. When you really show, what do you show? What worth do you show? When I consistently say come together to do what God and Jesus want, when I put my all into it, am I or am I not coming in the name of the LORD? What am I showing? We are Christ when Christ is within. We are Christ as we are given to be able to show. Christ is a spirit, as well as he came in the flesh, you realize. Don't get hung up as the Muslims, Quazi. That way leads nowhere.
If he hadn't showed God, would he himself have been saved by God? He would not have been the Christ. He would not have been worthy. This is a context within the full context. At that hour when he was troubled he could have run away and then not been the one. He stayed though so that among other things, they would do what they did so they would be marked and separated as the problems they were and still remain today, as is so evident in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere, all over.
Your theology says help but don't come completely together. It says do good works, but don't give it your all. It says anyone calling for all Christians coming completely together in spirit to do exactly what Jesus calls for is somehow automatically prideful, bragging, and ultimately selfish. Your theology is to be a kind of false-friendly to the homosexuals, pampering them in their error, while watching them pull the world down into greater and greater sin, including more and more greed and more and more violence to get their way. How is that love? How is that as Jesus going into the temple and driving people and their livestock out, throwing their money (shekels and Roman) on the floor where it belonged, and turning over their tables all the while yelling at them? How friendly in your way was that? How gentle was it? You think he was mild, or do you think he was full of righteous indignation? Do you think it was right or wrong, harmless or harmful?
Listen Quazi, you have to choose up sides. That's the way it is. Fence sitters don't go in. They fall outside. Those who seek to remain within ingratiating distance of the powers that be are fence sitters. Stand in the gap. Quit hanging back. Your theology retards and has retarded since Jesus left. We reject it. It is unacceptable, insufficient, misled, and misleading. It won't get the job done. It isn't the solution. It is apologetic for the churlish. It is no liberal device by which all real Christians can stand together.
Good Theology: Radical, Extremist, and Alarmist
On the other hand, we love the theology that says come together to feed all the lambs and sheep and to do all the other things and to turn this evil world upside down with everything we have. That's Jesus's radical and extreme message whether you like it or not, and neither you nor anyone else can change it.
God Is Intervening
We've made clear that people will continue in the world working and will help as much as they are able. They will help by pooling their resources (including their money they possess but that isn't really theirs and never has been) by contributing to this effort. We will convert money into, among other things, land that will be farmed by members who will be fed, housed, clothed, etc., and will feed and clothe, etc., and spread the same spirit until the whole Earth is Christian, fed, housed, and clothed, etc., which it will be regardless of whether or not we remain on this Earth to see it before the resurrection. That's entering into each other's labor and the labor of Jesus who reaped and sowed, as we are doing. It will happen even though it will take God intervening to get the job done. God is already intervening simply by virtue of our writing these things and putting them out on the Internet that the evil ones seek to sew up.
All Free of Charge
The truth is that the Real Liberal Christian Church is right about all Christians needing to bring forth the Commons to feed the lambs and sheep (something you called a good idea, maybe). However, you speak in ways to diminish it. That shows your spirit. If it's good, it's good and needs to be done. You're trying to have your cake and to eat it too. You've avoided taking a firm position on the original Church that was communistic and the beginning of the model for all the Earth becoming Heaven too. We say you're flat wrong. We say that real communism (not Marxism) in the spirit of Jesus is Christianity. That communism is one heart and one soul and one purse that ends up empty and unneeded, because all will eat free of charge. All things in Heaven are free of charge. Heaven comes to Earth. Both are then new, born again, married, truly righteous, peaceful, and all the rest of the good.
This is Not the Wide Path
Quazi, this site isn't about quarreling. It is about warning through love and offering the solution, which it most definitely does. The path offered here is not the wide path to Hell. It is the narrow way starting from this dark, dark world.
You initially said you came not to debate. We don't mind people coming to debate. We want them to be interested in finding the truth. Otherwise, it's evil. You came not to debate, but you evaded our questions even though we answered yours. Then you returned brazenly to seek to rebuke us without cause, without reasoned, rational thought, for our statements concerning homosexuality.
If you reply with other than having specifically addressed each of our pointed questions to you, you will be seen as a charlatan.
God Bless: Mercy
God bless everyone. God bless all the greedy, all the violent, and all the unwholesome, for if God blesses them, they will turn, repent, atone, and bring forth Heaven (the Commons) together and God will save the world because it will have shown its worth. It will have merited mercy. Do we deserve mercy? Then show it. Have you been merciful toward us, Quazi? We aren't being unmerciful toward you.
The kingdom is taken away and given to the new nation, a spiritual nation, bringing forth the fruits thereof on Earth as Heaven, as one.
The following should appear at the end of every post:
According to the IRS, "Know the law: Avoid political campaign intervention":
Tax-exempt section 501(c)(3) organizations like churches, universities, and hospitals must follow the law regarding political campaigns. Unfortunately, some don't know the law.
Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from participating in any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. The prohibition applies to campaigns at the federal, state and local level.
Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes. Section 501(c)(3) private foundations are subject to additional restrictions.
Political Campaign Intervention
Political campaign intervention includes any activities that favor or oppose one or more candidates for public office. The prohibition extends beyond candidate endorsements.
Contributions to political campaign funds, public statements of support or opposition (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of an organization, and the distribution of materials prepared by others that support or oppose any candidate for public office all violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention.
Factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:
- Whether the statement identifies one or more candidates for a given public office
- Whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval of one or more candidates' positions and/or actions
- Whether the statement is delivered close in time to the election
- Whether the statement makes reference to voting or an election
- Whether the issue addressed distinguishes candidates for a given office
Many religious organizations believe, as we do, that the above constitutes a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That said, we make the following absolutely clear here:
- The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project not only do not endorse any candidate for any secular office, we say that Christianity forbids voting in such elections.
- Furthermore, when we discuss any public-office holder's position, policy, action or inaction, we definitely are not encouraging anyone to vote for that office holder's position.
- We are not trying to influence secular elections but rather want people to come out from that entire fallen system.
- When we analyze or discuss what is termed "public policy," we do it entirely from a theological standpoint with an eye to educating professing Christians and those to whom we are openly always proselytizing to convert to authentic Christianity.
- It is impossible for us to fully evangelize and proselytize without directly discussing the pros and cons of public policy and the positions of secular-office holders, hence the unconstitutionality of the IRS code on the matter.
- We are not rich and wouldn't be looking for a fight regardless. What we cannot do is compromise our faith (which seeks to harm nobody, quite the contrary).
- We render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. We render unto God what is God's.
- When Caesar says to us that unless we shut up about the unrighteousness of Caesar's policies and practices, we will lose the ability of people who donate to us to declare their donations as deductions on their federal and state income-tax returns, we say to Caesar that we cannot shut up while exercising our religion in a very reasonable way.
- We consider the IRS code on this matter as deliberate economic duress (a form of coercion) and a direct attempt by the federal government to censor dissenting, free political and religious speech.
- It's not freedom of religion if they tax it.
And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (Matthew 17:24-26)