New Blacklisting

We find ourselves so far facing silence or evasion. It's an unwritten rule now of the Internet designed by those who cannot withstand scrutiny of their worldviews and don't want others to see their errors, because they don't want to have to change to what is truly the right path for each individual and the whole of humanity. They use many methods of evasion and silence and silencing. Mostly they just refuse to engage in open, honest, and direct dialogue. They act as if the refutation of their systems doesn't exist. They go on pretending that they are still right even though having already been shown to be wrong. They cover their tracks. They censor and break links. They refuse to allow people to see what doesn't agree with their defenseless positions. That is what they did toward Jesus, but there were people then who wouldn't go along. They supported his efforts to bring out the truth. People in general are not as good as were those original Christians. People today are in general much worse, much more dishonest, and much less desirous of living in truth.

Seeking Truth No Matter Where it Leads

There have been people who have come to this site, finding it only because of a huge effort to break through the barriers that have been erected to wall out the truth. Some have made a more honest effort than have others. None though so far has come in the spirit of seeking the truth no matter where it leads. It is in that spirit of seeking the truth no matter where it leads that we began our search and found Jesus at the end of years of looking.

Mainstream Hates the Church

We see the mainstream full of commentary by those held out to be worthy of being heard who are not. It is loaded with such voices. We know that the mainstream is owned by the few at the top who dictate. They hate that for which the Real Liberal Christian Church stands. They don't want giving and sharing all with all. They want more for themselves without merit. They don't want peace. They want war. They don't want sexual harmlessness. They want to self-license themselves to do any sexual act they want no matter the ultimate harm.

Now, not all major media outlets are pushing for the same things uniformly. None though is for giving and sharing all with all, peace, and sexual harmlessness, all three. Many of the leaders feign Christianity. Many are atheists and some are barely practicing Jews. Many are Jewish in the ethnic sense and are decided rejecters of Jesus. They are in the lead socially now in the worldly sense because of their monopoly in controlling currencies (money) and are decidedly leading the masses away from the message of Jesus, which message we partially lay out below. No good will come from pretending otherwise. Therefore, we seek to turn those who are lost.

Christianity Against All Harm

This site lays out all the reasons why Christianity is right. It is about giving and sharing all, total and unqualified pacifism, and (redundantly but needing to be said and reinforced constantly until Heaven comes) for harmlessness that necessarily includes sexual harmlessness. One cannot be a Christian, which is for turning the other cheek and for not stoning others, while being unopposed to harm from sex. That would be hypocrisy, and hypocrisy is un-Christian.

Now, as has become our habit of late, we are replying in great detail to comments placed on our website in the knowledge that the word will spread despite ostracism, censorship, and the new blacklisting.

Our reply here will touch upon many points and contain seeming redundancies, but will drive toward the full picture that is without hypocrisy. That's what it is to be Christian: Non-hypocritical. Bear with us. It is a chore to break through error that has been conditioned into minds for eons, but these things must be said. Understand that the writing style used in this post is deliberate. It may seem to ramble or be disorganized, but I assure you, there is a method. Read through the whole thing to get the whole feeling and thrust.

The following comment is part of a series. Our reply is our effort to show the commentator where he goes wrong concerning his statements about our vision. It is very revealing. Here is his last comment in total.


I apologize for how long it has taken to reply to your last post.

I am going to be frank with you. The commons looks like a good idea, but it is not the narrow path, nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell. The commons is not salvation.

I am very disturbed with your usage of scripture, you have a habit of taking scripture completely out of context and twisting it to suit your own agenda. Are you God that your word is mightier? When Jesus told us to be gentle as doves, He was not referring to sexual immorality as you are so fond of spouting, He was talking to the 12 disciples. Are you implying these 12 were gay? Or even bi-, considering Peter was married? He was sending them out to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to a rebellious nation that had time and time again killed the prophets, chased after false gods, and rebelled against God over the centuries. He was telling them to be wary - they were to preach a message that would not be well received.

Jesus commanded us to love each other. My question to you is this: How are you showing the Love of God with your anti-gay rhetoric? God is longsuffering towards is in His Love. Yes, He wants us to be perfected, but He is patient in this process. Remember this: He judges us after we die, not before.

All sin carries the same penalty - death. Jesus said God hates divorce. Lies, murder, adultery, idolatry... its is all equal. Homosexuality is not the pinnacle of a sin pyramid. Sin is sin. Plain and simple. Not to mention that he who breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments.

If you truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you. His ways of doing this is marvelous. I met a guy on the bus who had had such a heart for the homeless, but was unable to meet them on their level. So God made this man homeless. When I spoke to him, he was praising God for his homelessness because it equipped him to be able to minister to the homeless. I have met people that used their prosperity to adopt children with developmental disabilities.

I will end on this note: Salvation is found in God's mercy, not in trying to show our worth.


Hello Quazi,


How obligated are we toward you to continue answering your questions when you evade answering our questions that were all on subject? We asked you specific questions the answers to which had you been forthcoming would have helped to lead you to understand the place from which we come that you inquired about.

We aren't on some fishing expedition as spies to then turn in souls to Satan. We are about figuratively and unashamedly yelling from the rooftop for the sake of turning souls away from the current, wrong system. Yet, you don't answer our specific questions. Jesus was against those who refused to answer his specific questions all of which were exactly on subject. Nevertheless, you come here still making more statements, deriding us, and asking more questions. Are we being longsuffering? When do we give up trying to reach you? Well, this isn't just for you.

Reading In and Missing

Your comments are so far from understanding that it is difficult to see how to get from where you are to where we are. You're reading in so much that we aren't saying, and you're missing so much of what we are saying.

Why Evade?

We asked you in earlier posts to go back and provide answers to our earlier questions for the express purpose of being able to answer your questions. You deliberately avoided doing that. Is that because you could not provide coherent answers? Would your inability have exposed you to yourself as having an incomplete theological understanding? We stopped for awhile trying to answer you, because we cannot make you leapfrog into grasping what we've put here on this website for all to see. You need stepping stones. We all do. That's why you should have answered. You have been remiss via your evasion. Everyone is capable of making mental leaps to one degree or another. Different people can leap further than others can. People can get better at leaping. Spiritual legs are capable of growing in adulthood and into old age. It won't happen though for the uncooperative.

We are going to give this discussion another opportunity (stepping stones) with the view that you will reply in earnest, which means you will answer rather than evade.

Now, once again, we will take what you've said point-by-point and explain. Your comment from above is broken out into block quotes.

The commons looks like a good idea, but it is not the narrow path, nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell. The commons is not salvation.

You're wrong. You're mixing things that don't belong together. The following explains:

Heaven is the Commons: Sharing all with God

Heaven is the Commons by definition. Don't make the mistake of thinking of it as being solely on the mundane level. Read the Gospel. Jesus shares all with God. That means Heaven. Jesus shares all with his followers. That means Heaven too. It's too bad for you that you can't see it. You're blind to it, even though it's right in the Gospel. Open your eyes. Read it. It's there.

Are you saying that Jesus's way was not holding all things in common? Are you saying that his disciples and he didn't live out of one purse? Are you saying that Acts lies that the apostles continued living that way? Are you saying that Jesus was wrong and you are right? Yet, you ask us, "Are you God that your word is mightier?" You better shine that spotlight of yours back upon yourself before you go casting stones. You live in a glass house.

His commandment is to feed the lambs and sheep. He gave many commandments, all of which are consistent with the Commons, because the ultimate Commons is his commandment (Heaven) when all is said and done. He said to give everything for the sake of the poor. It means sharing all wealth. How can it mean anything else? He said taxing the children is wrong. He said be perfect as God the provider. He also said woe to anyone not found doing the commandments when the Son of man returns. We can go on and on expressing everything he said. It is all consistent with the outcome that is the highest Heaven that is a single Commons of all. How can avoiding the Commons be salvation?

Jesus Prayed for the Commons

Whatever Jesus wants for us on the Earth, that's what we want. He taught the prayer, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. If our God's kingdom in Heaven is a Commons, and it is, and if he prayed for that to come to Earth, then he prayed for the Earth to become a Commons. The Commons as we've expressed it in writing is wholly consistent with making strait the way. It is a best reflection, considering the relative darkness on the Earth at this time. It is something we come into. It is process.

The burden of proof is on you to show how God and Jesus's kingdom in Heaven isn't the ultimate Commons.

You asked more than once in your comments if we had any prayer requests. We answered you in the spirit of openness. We find that you asked us disingenuously, since you knew our mission at the time. You couldn't possibly have honored your offer to pray for what we answered while also holding all the positions against us that you do. We asked you to pray for our mission: Bringing forth the Christian Commons. You couldn't have prayed for the Commons as we told you what it stands for, and then come here and hack at it.

Transferring Anger

You haven't dented it though have you? You aren't going to dent it either. It's frustrating to you. You need to stop working in vain and out of the bitterness in your heart towards us. You're transferring your anger onto us. We aren't the ones who have made your life hard.

No Better Devices

The Commons is to do what Jesus said to do. It was what the first Apostles did in their first, original Church and then building upon it. Among other things, it is for the purpose of feeding the lambs and sheep. It is to do that as consistently as possible with all of Jesus's other teachings and his exemplary life starting from where we are, where the world is now, the world's mentality. We have seen no better devices proposed, because there aren't any better devices.

What is Christianity

Christianity is a union. It is not a confederation. It is not a group of distinct denominations or theological bents. Christianity is the mind of Jesus. It is not pluralism in that it is not a multiplicity of beliefs concerning what is and what is not moral or good or right or harmless or unselfish and the like. Christianity is only what Jesus thought and thinks. It is not of individualists. It is a collective of individuals who separate themselves together to God and shine that light brightly and openly together into the world to save it by God. That's the Church. There is only one Church.

Usage Doesn't Dictate

Contrary to popular opinion, it isn't defined by usage. Usage doesn't dictate what is or isn't Christian. Christian is what Jesus said in the Gospels and is the Holy Spirit that is exactly consistent with that teaching. No deviation is allowed. Those who want to deviate go off on the wide path still claiming to be Christians. Christians are only the followers of Jesus. Even when he returns, he is a follower of Jesus. No Episcopal Church with its homosexual bishop or bishop who claims Christian priests can also be Muslims can change the definition of Christian. That's not Christianity.

Establishing This Church

You are against the establishing of this Church. You are against my Church, which is Jesus's Church, because, among other reasons it stands for giving and sharing all together, pacifism, sexual harmlessness, and bringing forth the Christian Commons as an open and bright light for all to see (as many bright, shining cities on many hills) until the whole Earth is of that voluntary communism (not Marxism, not coercive), pacifism, cooperation (not competition), and sexual propriety (wholesomeness, health).

Standing Against This Church

You are against people donating to this Church. You work at odds with the mission of this Church. You make yourself the enemy of this mission. That's not good. You work to dissuade people from believing that if they enter into helping us or into membership with this Church no matter where they are that they will be entering into the labors of Jesus Christ.

Everything Good is On the Narrow Way

Now, you say the Commons is a "good idea" but that it is not the narrow path or saving. However, if it is a good idea then it is consistent with Jesus's desires. Nothing can be consistent with Jesus's desires and also be good but not be part of his way, which way is a whole way leading to salvation. There is no such thing as something that is good that is not part of the narrow way and salvation. The converse is also true. There is no such thing as something that is evil that is not part of the wide path and damnation. If it is good, it is of the real Heaven. If it is evil, it is of Hell. This is Jesus's teaching. If it is good, it is of God. If it is evil, it is of Satan. Heaven is God's kingdom. If the Commons is a good idea, it is of the kingdom. Nothing of that kingdom is to be rejected. Everything of that kingdom is to be stood by, by those of that kingdom. If you don't understand this, you are not of the kingdom. You are a loner: Lost from the flock if you were ever of it.

Come Back Together

People have come together with the wrong goals (harmful and selfish) and therefore necessarily using wrong means (harmful). Some have split off to do right things, others to do further wrong. Those who have separated themselves to God as themselves part of the Christ spirit (to be consistent and same), then are to come back together with their like kind. You're not advocating that those people come together though. Jesus is though. He's calling his together to be real, which is to be liberal, which is to bring forth abundantly and harmlessly, and which together require crediting God, for there is no such abundance or harmlessness without God, as we may readily see by the current state of the worldly world that is fighting over scarcity they have caused by their harmful apostasy.

If you didn't realize it before and have now come to realize it, then you stand corrected, which is good. If you stand corrected, from here on you say what is correct. You support it, as you are able. You never write or talk to try to put it down. You say the Commons is what it is, which is bringing forth Heaven on Earth to the extent human beings are able to do that by turning to God in earnest and by sharing all and entering into each other's labor as Jesus taught.

No Vested Interests

If you have some vested interest with which you are unwilling to part for the sake of the whole, you aren't of the whole Church. You aren't of the branch. Again, you are a loner no matter how much you're around other people or attend services. That's not what Jesus wanted for his Church. It is right to commune alone at times with God, but it is not right to be apart from the real Church in spirit ever. In fact, one cannot commune with God and be spiritually apart from his Church. The Church is where your heart is.

The Commandments as One: Wholeness

The Commons is the doing of the Golden Rule. It is the showing of the New Commandment. It is the First and Second Great Commandments. One cannot love one's neighbor as one's self or love God with one's all or do to others what one ought to want others to do unto one or love others as Jesus loved and loves his followers and not be for the Commons being the state, the condition, the emotional state, of all the Earth and Heaven as one. The Commons is a state of heart and mind. It is a spiritual condition. It is that state and condition brought forth, manifested, and made incarnate as its members. That state of mind and that spirit is Jesus's mind, his mentality, his worldview, his mind-set, and it is God and it is ours in which to share completely. You cannot deny us from entering in. You don't have that power. You don't hold the key to lock us out. We see through and walk right through you. That said, each commune would be a part of the whole. The whole would be in each part. This is exactly Christianity.

Everything the Commons is about is about doing exactly what Jesus called upon us to do as his followers. The way in which we have expressed it is simply the beginning of the unfolding of the whole faith that will lead to the same degree of faith that was evident when Jesus did his miracles.

Darkest Age So Far Now

Right now, the world is extremely dark. It is darker than when Jesus walked the Earth. Faith is less than it was — much less. The people calling themselves Christian today don't have the faith that the five thousand had when Jesus fed them on five loaves and two fishes and ended up with twelve baskets full of bread and everyone satisfied. There is not such faith amongst five thousand people on the face of the Earth today. They are splintered and have been refusing to conflate (be blown together by the Holy Spirit to speak with one voice). There are false shepherds breaking them up into individualists.

Supporting the Commons

As for your statement, "...nor is anyone who does not participate doomed to hell," that depends on what the person knows, that to which he or she has been exposed, and what he or she is doing and why. It depends upon what is in the person's heart. We'll explain in a bit. However, this is your characterization and not our statement. Where did we write a blanket statement that anyone who does not participate is doomed to hell? We have qualified our statements.

The person with the right heart is already of the Commons in heart, even if he or she can't contribute monetarily or be on a commune physically. We've written that same sentiment before. That person will be of help simply by telling others the Commons is right. That person is not against any real liberal thing for which Jesus stands. Are you saying that Jesus is against the Commons and that it is not on the narrow path? Are you saying that the Commons is of the wide path leading to Hell? How is this so?

The person with the right heart who is already of the Commons in heart, even if he or she can't contribute monetarily or be on a commune physically, will still encourage everyone who is in a position to help to do just that even if it is just with a tiny amount. Afterall, the old woman gave a tiny offering, but it was more than all the offerings of the rich who gave only a portion out of their tremendous fortunes gained or held selfishly.

Jesus is for the Commons. Everyone who loves Jesus will love the idea of the Commons. Anyone who knocks the Commons the way you're doing doesn't truly love Jesus. He or she doesn't know the real Jesus.

Who Owns All?

Listen and look, Quazi. The Commons belongs to all Christians. It is one purse no matter where that purse is. If People in California or Argentina or India or wherever form a Commons as we've expressed it here, they will say that I as a real Christian own that with them every bit as much as they do. Why it that true? It's easy to understand if you are a real Christian. I will be welcome there, because I believe in feeding the lambs and sheep in that way, which in the end is the only way, the sharing way, God's way. It is completely consistent with how Jesus fed the five thousand. It is heading in that direction, that spirit. You either get this, or you just aren't given by God to comprehend it. That's the way it is.

What Do People Deserve?

The question is whether or not the people deserve the Commons. If they deserve it, they'll have it. If they don't deserve it, they won't soften. Their spirit will harden, and they'll get what they deserve — what they've been dishing out, which isn't good but very evil and punishing.

Keeping Helping and Also Help the Commons: As one

Various people are helping others right now. The Commons (Heaven) doesn't say stop. It says continue helping people, but do what you are able to do to help to break the cycle of the unrighteous money by converting it into the Christian Commons where not all of it will flow back into the vicious cycle of selfishness that is at the heart of capitalism, which system denies the miraculous power of God and rather wants the people fooled into placing all their faith in money (for the sake of the greedy, the evil ones, devils, literally).

For those who want to understand more about translating money into the system where money is no longer needed, see our series: "Libertarian Capitalism: False Shepherds," beginning with the article, "Cato Antichrist: Part 1: Anti-Environmentalism is Evil." In that series, we spell out with New Testament justification how even money itself is an inherently evil system that Jesus does not use in his Heaven.

What's Is a Name? Denominations, Sect

You wrote in an earlier comment, "We [your wife and you] do not believe in joining or committing membership to any Christian denomination or sect. We belong solely to Jesus Christ and are part of the Body of Christ." That suggests that you are leading people to believe that if they are real and liberal and Christian and of the Church, they do not belong only to the Church that Jesus founded. We have the name "Real Liberal Christian Church," because it expresses that there are people going about who are not real by virtue of their standing against working together to bring forth abundantly for all and hence not Christian which necessarily means not of the universal Church. In other words, you can't even call yourself Christian without making the statement thereby that you are denominated. Christianity is the name of the religion. That name separates Christians from non-Christians. Also, the Real Liberal Christian Church is only sectarian in the minds of those who don't understand that all the false shepherds misleading all the flocks calling themselves Christians (meaning leading them into greed, violence, sexual harm, or any other form of ultimate harm and selfishness) have misappropriated the name of Jesus. It has become necessary to say that Christianity is only real liberalism. That is the only Church. It is necessary to be of that mind to be Christian. You though have rejected that. You don't believe that. You hold against it. You're wrong to do so, and we tell you so.

Denomination means name that distinguishes. It designates a group. It begins to apply immediately to one cell, as it did with Christ. The more cells there are, the more value it has for identifying the large grouping. Where two or more are gathered in his name, there he is. However, a Christian is an individual person. Did he mean that he is not where there is just one Christian? That's the kind of question you started out asking us. It was fine until you balked at the answers that were justified.


He is where he abodes. He lives in each. However, his context for saying that wherever two or more are gathered is to encourage the gathering of the flock by a then new name that was to come: Christian. The point is gathering, gathering for specific purposes that were not all stated in the writings of Paul because we are here now and he was speaking largely of events to occur during his immediate generation: The wrath to come in the form of the Romans, which it did, as Jesus accurately predicted, of course. Jesus though was speaking of more than one context and generation at a time.

He was speaking about Rome coming to do what it did because the Jews wouldn't listen to Jesus and do as he was telling them. He was though also speaking to us who are here long after Rome did that great tribulation to the apostate Jews. We are still tasked though with doing what he told them to do, because the correctness of it is still valid and always will be right into his Heaven where Jesus's principles are in use.


You are preaching against gathering for one of the purposes of Jesus, which is a synergistic piece of work that is the feeding of his lambs and sheep, his spiritual family first and foremost and all others, as God does. Everyone can do his or her little bit apart, but the group effort is absolutely synergistic and supported by God. The division and organization of labor and each being of the same spiritual goal of getting the mundane job done first, thereby, results in all entering into each other's labor of sowing and reaping. That brings forth abundantly when done correctly that is with respect for the gift of the land that God has provided for the very purpose. You, however, go against this grain. You don't go with this flow of the Holy Spirit. You complain about it as if it's wrong.

You wrote in an earlier comment that you're going to go into ministry fulltime. So to avoid hypocrisy, you're ministry won't have a name, right?

The Call to Charge

You also said our "calling is not to change anyone. Nor is our calling to change society. We just shine the Light." That diminishes change. That weakens the call to change. Changing the heart is what a real Christian calls upon others to do. We call upon the hardhearted to soften to giving and share all with all. Are you against that? If we say things to convince others to so change, that's a good thing. That's what Jesus wants. We are of the right spirit when we do that consistent with all of Jesus's teachings and works: To be Christlike, to do as he did, as God does. That is shining the light. We are anointed with power to spread the saving way and do the saving work. That way and work are one. They are faith and works as one, each requisite for the other. Christianity is to change people and the world. It does and will. The thrust of your direction doesn't lead to emphasis upon coming together or doing works. Your message leads to disintegration and to the opposite of the synergism that will occur while you're left behind not understanding all the cooperation. You aren't spreading the message of acting in concert. You're spreading everyone being a soloist apart. There is a time for solos, but there is a time for concerted effort. We are for forming the concert of harmony.

Charge is turning, repenting, and atoning.

You say you attend a congregation. How is it known? What words are used in referring to it? That is its name. Are you members but not really? Does that group, that congregation, somehow hold to a better vision than does the Real Liberal Christian Church? Are they against our plan? Are they and you against our vision of Heaven and against bringing that vision to fruition on the Earth? Are you all saying that we don't hold with Jesus, that our vision isn't his also?

You also wrote in an earlier comment, "We do agree with you that in order to serve the Lord Jesus we must do good works on a daily basis. But we do not do those works in order to achieve salvation."

We Aren't Roman Catholics

What are you so worried about? Serving the flock is serving Jesus. You press this issue about works and salvation at us as if we're Roman Catholics selling indulgences. We aren't anywhere near that, as any honest reading of our writings will confirm. We aren't Roman Catholics. We don't subscribe to their obvious broken Apostolic Succession, what with, among other evil signs, all their pedophile priests. We are in favor of The Bible having been printed in English and all the other languages and continuing to do so. We don't believe the bishop of Rome is the infallible one in matters of faith. We believe Rome was Constantine I, who ruined that church with plenty of help.

We Aren't Protestants or Secular Humanists

However, just because we don't hold with the Roman Catholicism, doesn't mean we hold with Protestantism. We don't. We know that the Protestant leaders didn't return to the original faith of Jesus. In their fervor against the errors of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, they simply went in the other direction on the same mundane spectrum. If selling indulgences was bad, then faith alone is the extreme opposite so it must be right they thought and think incorrectly. The truth is that faith and work always go together. There is never faith without works, and teaching is also work. There can be ostensible good deeds without faith, but part of good works includes teaching about faith. So where there is the full complement of good works, there is always the imparting of faith, so not to fear. Just require both, and you're fine. You don't have to harp on works without faith to the faithful. We aren't secular humanists, Quazi. Stop speaking at us as if we are. It's offensive. It harms the cause of Christ. It is divisive for no good reason.

If the mainstream, major Protestants understood, they would have brought forth the Commons. They didn't. They didn't get it. Their traditional followers still don't.

The Error of the So-Called Fundamentalists

Most of those Protestants took an arbitrary contextual line that excluded other contexts that were Jesus's and plain to see. They termed their system "Fundamentalism" and "literal." They declared their interpretations the only acceptable interpretations. They ignored or diminished Jesus's figurative language. From that, they came up with all sorts of wrong conclusions causing problems from then to now and that will continue to do so until overturned. It is they who took things out of the fuller context.

Perfection is being good all the time. That is saving. God saves, and God is good: Perfect. Jesus said be that way. That's how he had the power. That's how the power came down and entered the Apostles. When Christians started deviating, the power was lost. Do you have it? Do you have the power of the laying on of hands? The people to be healed have to have the faith. They have to have enough faith.

Money Silences: Break Through

There is healing that goes on that comes from faith, but look at how little there is and how unconnected it is with the wider world. The world doesn't spread the news the way it used to. The evil hearted have perfected ostracism. They turn people into isolated islands unable to be heard without outlandishness or huge quantities of the unrighteous money that the selfish monopolize, literally. Even that method of outlandishness is being dried up by new rules to silence all dissent. Evil (money) is seeking to clamp down harder and harder. You aren't helping to break through with your attitude against the Real Liberal Christian Church.

We are a voice speaking truth that the powers that be seek to silence through all manner of means. You're playing right into their hands. You aren't calling for people to help strengthen the voice by coming together as a network to speak with uniformity for all those things for which we stand and against those things that stand against us. You're harming the cause by not being part of it. You're calling this cause other than of God. That's a disservice to all who would benefit so greatly by the success of this movement of the Holy Spirit of truth.

We Believe in the Works of Jesus

Quazi, we are not a Protestant-Pauline church as those churches have come up and are temporally established. We are not disciples of Luther or Calvin. They were wrong. The pacifist Anabaptists were closer to the kingdom by far, but their tenets still are not as close as are the tenets of the Real Liberal Christian Church, else we'd have joined the Anabaptists.

We believe in works, small and huge, cooperative, non-competitive works. We believe in emphasizing such works and giving all credit to our God, who is the God of Jesus. All of Jesus's works were of God. Jesus's exceeding faith is why God did what God did through Jesus. We are against all those who place so much emphasis upon piety that it becomes false and the power to do works dies and the work goes undone, which it has, obviously.

The Right Response

What you should have written is that the Commons is a good idea, not just "looks like" a good idea. Also, here's a little bit to help [and you could for the price of a pizza a month or something] even if just to be the first couple brave enough to go out on the dance floor. Also, we [Saijah and Quazi] will spread the word to encourage others to help with whatever they are able, even if it is only a few dollars a month, since every little bit will help add up to enough to obtain some land to put to the use of the cause of bringing forth to feed the working lambs and sheep [I being also one of those poor workers], and those hungry [you care about]. Also, I will encourage those who cannot give to at least speak in support of the good idea. You didn't do that though. You stuck around to try to kill it, to send the message to those who would read your comments that they ought not to help. Therefore, you are responsible for all those who would have benefited spiritually and otherwise sooner by the help of people you've influence not to help.

You see, we don't go around telling people not to help others in concert while claiming to be Christians. We tell people to help us divert and translate from evil causes, such as greedy, violent, selfish, harmful causes. If all the money that is being poured out for evil ends, including for overeating, were rather unselfishly to be channeled through the Christian Commons Project, think about all the land that would be converted to the righteous cause. Think about all the abundance and benefit to all those who otherwise are neglected and abused, etc., by the current system that encourages over-consumption (excess), and all the rest of the evil it spews. Yet, you stand against us. You write against us. You have some hidden and selfish reason for that. You haven't recognized it in yourself, or you are knowingly the ravening wolf in sheep's clothing.

We Don't Trumpet: Don't Presume

You don't know how much we've given to this cause. You don't know where we were or what we possessed or where it went and why. People can just think about what behavior on our part would be consistent with what we're calling for. We haven't been inconsistent, Quazi. We aren't saying we've been perfect. We're still learning. God though knows our heart.

Are the only people you imagine who have given for the right reason are those who trumpet? Bill Gates trumpets. He has a fleet of public relations people making sure he gets good press. He has also given nearly nothing when compared with the little old lady who gave everything, even her whole living, as Jesus said.

You don't know what hardships we've undergone or the abuse or scorn we've received on account of this very ministry. You don't know the people we've seen die because of sin. Yet you presume to judge us as if we don't know anything about homelessness or going hungry or being beaten or abused or the like. You don't know the violence we've seen. You don't know the threats we've endured. You don't know all the people we've known and what we know about what they've been through. You are much too presumptuous about us.

Just because we don't tell you all the stories we know, just because we don't wear everything on our sleeve, you presume.

The Accuser

I am very disturbed with your usage of scripture, you have a habit of taking scripture completely out of context and twisting it to suit your own agenda. Are you God that your word is mightier?

Started From the Beginning

You accuse out of what you don't know. We were not converted to Christianity or Communism or real communism (that is real Christianity) or pacifism or sexual purity before we started seeking answers. We didn't seek out verses in The Bible to take them out of context or otherwise to support any preconceived ideas. We started from the very beginning: From scratch. We did that, because the status quo assumptions always turned out to be misleading: Waste. The current system is wrong. We followed all the leads of all the main philosophies and religions and ideologies. They kept coming up with dead ends. Only the train of thought in the Gospels led to all the necessary cross-referencing to the end that was not dead but will work perfectly. Some cross-referencing had already been noted by others. Much had not.

Root Makeover

We were led by the Holy Spirit, for who else would lead us to such a root makeover from our ignorance as to our own sin (harm we didn't even realize we were doing, harm we mistakenly took for God blessing us) from where we started?

Missing Using Scripture

It is said that any case can be made with verses, taking them out of context and interpreting them to support a cause. That does not describe our process. It doesn't describe Jesus's, although we know that is exactly what many Talmudists argue about Jesus's interpretations of how he is described and predicted by scripture. They are wrong about Jesus, and you are wrong about us. You have mischaracterized what we have done and what we are doing.

Accusing From Darkness

You don't grasp the fuller context, so according to you, we're taking things out of context and twisting. Even many of Jesus's enemies in his face didn't make so bold. You call our plan maybe "a good idea," but you call it our "own agenda" as if it isn't God's though it's good. You're digging your own hole, Quazi.

My own agenda you say. It is not my own agenda as if I am alone in this. God and Jesus have this agenda. That's the only reason we have it.

Against Oneness

You ask whether we are God and mightier. You say you believe in Jesus. Jesus said the kingdom dwells within. He said he is the Son of God. He said we are all to be one. What is that one? Is it not God? Do we not have God living in us? Are we not incarnate? How can we be mightier than the God living in us? You preach against that spirit of oneness. You preach against the Gospel of John by any interpretation.

Substantiate Your Allegations

Mightier than what, the interpretation you've bought? Your question also implies without basis that we are usurpers of God. Back up your statement. Show us where we've written anything indicating any evidence for this scorn of yours.

Copying the Pharisees and Sadducees, etc.

You attack the way they attacked Jesus. You evade his logic, just as they did. You refuse to answer, just as they did. You use the same style. They accused without any evidence, just as you do. What Jesus had said openly contradicted their accusations. The same applies with us concerning you. You are completely without justification in deriding the Christian Commons.


Consider this, Quazi. If Heaven is a Commons and you say the Christian Commons isn't Heaven, you won't be there. You'll be with those who reject the Commons. Here's some prophesying for you, Quazi. The world will be saved and made new. When it is, it will be the New Heaven on the New Earth and it will be the Christian Commons, the real Commons.

The Job of the Church

Our job is to do everything we can to prepare the way. That's the job of every Christian in unity. We are to come together. We are to conflate around Jesus's teaching, example, and commandments, which includes feeding all his lambs and sheep in the flesh (without necessarily expecting everyone to instantly be transported to the level of faith shown at the feeding of the five thousand), something that hasn't been being done. If as Christians we can't do it in the flesh, how are we to be accounted worthy to share in the power that can do it in spirit?

Standing By the Liberal Device

We've devised the liberal device that solves the problem of feeding all the lambs and sheep and we stand by it. If you choose to stand against it, so be it. You've made your choice. It will come to fruition sooner or later though with or without you. If you change your mind, let us know.

More Prophesying

The false-hearted, churlish, leaders don't move the flock to do it. They rather lord it over them and make themselves rich in the unrighteous money. They create greater and greater scarcity. They skim off from the labors of others for themselves and not to further God's work. They give some here and there as a false show, to further deceive. They don't bring forth abundance. They will fall.

That's prophesying against them as a son of God Quazi. You don't hear it that way though. With you, it can't be.

Harmless Always Refers to All Harm

When Jesus told us to be gentle as doves, He was not referring to sexual immorality as you are so fond of spouting,

Get thee behind me, Satan. Christians are to do no harm, period. If some sexual behavior is harmful, it is wrong. If you don't like that, then you aren't a Christian. You can stand there before your maker claiming that being harmless doesn't refer also to being sexually harmless and I'll stand there saying it does, and we'll see. Are you sure you don't want to repent of your statement? Are you going to stand on it to the death? That would be a big mistake. We seek to gain our brother. Are you our brother in Christ or not?

Old Testament or New

What New Testament scripture do you use (other than the ones we use) to justify your position that homosexuality is a sin if you are so wise as to come here to instruct us as to where we are wrong? Answer or stop presuming to correct us. It becomes tedious to deal with people who evade substantiating their allegations. Do you use only Old Testament justifications without tying them in with the teaching of Jesus? If you do, you will be faced with having to justify all Old Testament laws as being applicable today for you. Are you an Old Testament Jew or a New Testament Christian? You can't be both at the same time. Holding to the laws of Moses is to violate the laws of Jesus. Moses said stone them. Jesus said only if you are sinless. Yet, stoning itself is even sin. There is no way you are living according to all the laws of Moses, so you'll have to justify your Christian position that homosexuality is sin based upon the New Testament. That we have already done, but you've already rejected it. Now where are you? Justify yourself if your so wise as to come here to correct us. Straighten us out where we are crooked, Quazi, or stop, turn, and help.

Separating the Righteous from Evil

What line do you draw from the message of Jesus for separating the goats from the sheep if you don't use the same line that we do, which is harm versus harmless? Tell us. Is there harm in the Heaven of Jesus Christ, Quazi? Christianity is the religion of calling all souls to do no wrathful acts, because where there is no harm, there is no wrath to come. That's what Jesus came to say. He said stop being harmful and you won't face your own incorrect system. What we do is reflected back at us for our own edification and salvation or damnation as we choose to believe and act accordingly, according to our works. We are judged according to our own works whether you think Paul said otherwise or not.

What Is Your Device?

You stand against the Commons as leading to Heaven (which is a commons, the Commons). How then do you propose to feed all the lambs and sheep? You're hell bent for putting down our real liberal device by which we stand, as Isaiah prophesied, as he prophesied about the coming of Jesus, but you offer nothing in it's place to do the job.

Witnessing to the Homeless and Hungry but Leaving Them Homeless and Hungry

Jesus doesn't want everyone to be homeless, Quazi. He doesn't just want people witnessing to the homeless and leaving them out on the street. He isn't about dragging people off the streets, but he does want his designated shepherds devising and executing real liberal devices for lifting up the homeless who are given to accept it. Do you dispute this? Where's your justification? Where is your better way? We understand that you have helped people, but why are you against the Commons, since it would help more people, many more if it receives the necessary support?

Jesus had no nest or den when he started his public ministry. Yet, he said, "I was a stranger and you took me in." He was saying that about those who ended up sharing their homes with him saying in effect, "My house is your house," as all real Christians would. He was saying that about those who end up sharing their homes with members of his flock saying in effect, "My house is your house," as all real Christians will.

Was he a burden?

Therefore, Christians should come together in spirit, which also means apart in spirit from the wide path of the secularists, to create the Christian Commons (many places) where the unselfish homeless (converts) may own collectively and give and share and have the plot of ground to grow food and in turn give their surplus to those yet homeless and hungry and where people with money may donate, even when they too share in the bounty, (but the food won't be priced but free)? Why not support this Church that has it mapped out? This Church is ready to do the work necessary to bring it to fruition.

Yes, the selfish will complain that this free system is ruining their selfish system. They will rant and rave to the powers that be to do everything they can to ruin the Christian undertaking. The Christian Commons though is the free exercise of the Christianity written in the Gospels.

Quazi, the people have been acting on your individualist interpretations for how many centuries now? Where's the finished product that when the spirit of Jesus returns he finds us all doing what he left as his blueprint?

The plans laid down by the powers that be have resulted in planned chaos (divide and conquer) by which they continue to magnify their evil, selfishly lording it over the people and justifying it with bad interpretations of the message of Jesus.

Nonexistent Voice

Your voice is weak to nonexistent when it comes to calling for changing course. You even say you don't call people to change or to change society. How un-Christlike is that? Yes everyone must do his or her part everywhere he or she happens to be, but coming together is his message. He didn't preach just doing things the way you are suggesting. His message was for more.

We aren't saying that everyone must gather physically in one physical spot. We are saying that everyone must gather spiritually around one vision that mandated we feed all his lambs and sheep. Your writing doesn't emphasize that. It deemphasizes it to the point of nonexistence.

No Harm is No Sin

He was talking to the 12 disciples. Are you implying these 12 were gay? Or even bi-, considering Peter was married?

How you jumped from my saying that harmlessness is what Jesus called for fulltime and that homosexuality is anti-Christian (since it is harmful) to even imagining for a moment that I was implying that the disciples were homosexuals is beyond me. That leap was unfounded and very disorderly. Don't you learn about people's hearts after reading so much of what they have to say? How have you not figured out what is consistent with us?

Jesus was telling them to be as perfect as possible, as perfect as they were capable of being. He told them to do no harm, no sin of any kind.

Also, since you brought it up, what sins had the disciples done before they entered into the service of God under Jesus's tutelage? They had not been perfect. It doesn't list all their sins. It lists some. Regardless, it was a blanket statement by Jesus covering all sin. He said, go and spread the word and don't do any sinning (harming) in the process. It is irrelevant to your point as to what sin each had committed before that. They were being made strait from out of whatever dark place they were coming and being drawn.

Were there men healed of their sexual sins? Does the Gospel have to list every disease he cured? We are confident that there were men who had engaged in homosexuality who were healed by the message and their new found, real faith. If you choose to think otherwise, that's up to you.
He was sending them out to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to a rebellious nation that had time and time again killed the prophets, chased after false gods, and rebelled against God over the centuries. He was telling them to be wary - they were to preach a message that would not be well received.

If you are going to take each commandment he gave and then leave each out when he taught another time and didn't specifically mention every commandment, you aren't going to get the whole message. That is the mistake you are making and have been making since you first visited our site.

Look, the first Great Commandment contains within it the prohibition against homosexual behavior. That's why adhering to it is to not violate any law. The whole law is one rule. Be harmless. Be beneficial. Be unselfish. Be giving of all. These are one rule, Quazi. Don't you see that? It's fundamental to the faith. When Jesus said be harmless as doves, he wasn't breaking up the one rule. To be harmless as doves is to be adhering to the Greatest Commandment. Do you really not see that, yet you call yourself a Christian? Homosexual acts are sins against God. They are finally unloving acts. Jesus never broke up the rule. That's the whole point. That's how we know what to do. That's why the Christian Commons is a good idea that needs support, including yours for your sake and the sake of the many.

Why the World Will Be Saved

Yes, he was warning them to be aware, but he told them that if they did what he said they'd be fine and they were. That too is part of the message, it is part of being aware, for if we do what he said to do (be harmless and only beneficial) we too will be fine. The nation, the people, the family, whether bloodline, spiritual, or both, that does all together without dissention all that he said that ought to be done will be saved, be redeemed, be delivered, and enter Heaven. No one else will enter that level of Heaven. If the whole people of the Earth turn together, all will be saved and fine. That's guaranteed. That's a promised from God I share with you. Do you doubt it? Do you doubt it comes from the Holy Spirit and not from men? Do you have the faith to answer correctly?

Also, contrary to what you wrote, the message was received very well. That's why the powers that be murdered him. They did it his way, not yours. They did it uniformly. They did it in sync. You preach against doing things in sync. You preach against the cooperative and collective way. You preach against the whole.

Israel Destroyed and Scattered Again

The nation of the Jews was ruined and scattered for the very reason that their leaders didn't come together. They were contrarians. They went against the clear direction of the greatest prophet they ever had visit them. Now here you are preaching against coming together in the spirit of that greatest prophet. We are saying come together while you are saying stay apart. Are you so confident of yourself that you want to remain standing on your spot? You better move: Change.

Things in Context

As for taking things out of context, when he said, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her, was that an isolated context or was he giving a blanket statement against capital punishment and punishment in general? Do you think he was referring only to the sin of adultery and that it is okay with him to commit capital punishment or any punishment for other sins? Take the context to mean that punishment by the hands of sinners is just more sinning.

When he said, ...resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also, was that a blanket statement against violent defense or was that somehow reserved for some isolated context within your mind? Then what are wars? Are they ever just?

When he said, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me, and when he also said Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect, were those qualified statements, or were they blanket statements covering all occasions, times, and places? What then are money, banks, usury, taxes, capitalism, private property, and all the rest of the secular notions? He had much to say about all of these things, and we've elaborated on them all for the edification of our visitors with the view that sooner or later those who are receptive will see it and be moved to help synergistically by entering into each other's labors through the Church as it was and is meant to be and out of their genuine spirit of fulltime unselfishness.

When he said, And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day, was he saying that the sin of Sodom was sin forever or was it just sin in the time of Abraham and Jesus only to now be authorized and called a healthy alternative lifestyle? Then what is homosexuality and what are all the other forms of sexual behavior outside faithful marriage between one man and one woman?

Was Jesus Boasting?

If you are observant, you will see the words "mighty works." You will see that he did works that showed. Do you accuse your own savior of boasting himself, a la Paul? The works came from God. We have made clear to you time and again that we give all credit to God. What we say to you though is going in one ear and out the other. Is it over your head? Are you standing real watch, or are you secretly working for the enemy even if subconsciously?

Heaven is the place where there is not capital punishment or any punishment, where there are no poor or rich but rather everyone is fed, etc., and where there is no harm, including sexual, even where our kind is transformed to no longer using sex to bring forth flesh because all flesh is transformed into immortality.

The Commons is the place where there is not capital punishment or any punishment, where there are no poor or rich but rather everyone is fed, etc., and where there is no harm, including sexual. It is a necessary spiritual precursor to the ultimate transformation of humanity. We are in a womb of sorts. We are becoming.

Warning is Love

Jesus commanded us to love each other. My question to you is this: How are you showing the Love of God with your anti-gay rhetoric? God is longsuffering towards is in His Love. Yes, He wants us to be perfected, but He is patient in this process. Remember this: He judges us after we die, not before.

What have we said about homosexuality that offends you? Be specific. Why are you offended for the homosexuals?

Warning is required. Warning is love. That's what watching is. That's what sounding the alarm is. If you see the error fatal to souls coming and you don't sound the alarm, you are culpable. Now, you admit that you are aware of the fatal error that is homosexuality, but you want to characterize our warning as evil.

Patients and Impatients

You fail to see Jesus's impatients with his patients. He was both. Patients runs out. It is why wrath from Satan comes. He was impatient for people to see that, even while he forgave from the cross. Can you reconcile those two things? You won't if you refuse to see the fuller context. Explain it if you are able; otherwise, why do you assume authority to come here preaching at us as you do? Tell us something we don't already know. Stop being an expert in the partial-truth obvious.

Those who don't really love don't warn. They just let others fall into temptation and be harmed and to harm others. It is evil not to warn. It is evil to harm. It is more evil still to do it knowingly. Homosexuality is harmful. The time to turn from homosexuality is always — the sooner the better.


You speak as if there is no urgency to save homosexuals who will turn. They are dying each day. You speak as if there is no urgency to save children from the slippery, secular slope where it won't be long before pedophiles are demanding the same rights as homosexuals. Don't forget, the secular state claims to own you. It claims total authority over you. It doesn't believe in God.

California Not Eden Again but Shameful

Look at the changes in the laws that are being put through. Public elementary school restrooms in California, which can be large restrooms holding many children at once are now what, coed? Any boy who wants to go into the girl's restroom may, because he identifies himself as a female in who knows what way. This isn't being promoted by those who are reentering Eden where no one is ashamed of his or her nakedness because none sin. This is breaking down the wall of separation between sin and righteousness so that there won't be any righteousness left. This is why Isaiah said that when salvation comes, "The vile person shall no longer be called liberal," because they aren't really liberal (bringing forth abundance) but rather what is vile (unhealthy, unwholesome). The trend in California is away from wholesomeness and toward vileness. Do you see now Isaiah 32:5 opening up to you? This is what we've been saying.

Untwisting Liberalism

The meaning of the term "liberal" has been twisted to license what is illiberal. No abundance will come out of unwholesomeness, only ruination and desolation and scarcity. The same holds true for churlishness, which is stinginess, which is the opposite of the Commons.

Tribulation is Individual Lives

Also, don't forget that the wrath comes suddenly. It doesn't just apply to the Great Tribulation. It also applies within each person's life individually before that tribulation. People are being taken in their iniquity every hour every day. Those who haven't been prepared won't enter. Jesus was in a hurry even as he was patient. We are to bring forth the Commons (Heaven) in patients and with perseverance and withstanding persecution. We are though to do it and not to procrastinate or dilute. Your words on this site have not been helpful. They aid procrastination. They aid in dilution.

Don't Ingratiate with Sinners: Turn them

Ingratiating yourself with the homosexuals is not the way to warn them. It is not alarming them and others. Do you doubt that Jesus was an alarmist with good reason? Saving just one person is worth sounding an alarm if that's the only way to get the person's attention, isn't it?

The Walking Dead: Judged

Who "judges us after we die"? The truth has already judged. Read it. Those who hate Jesus and don't really believe that God saves are already dead. They've been judged. Can they come back to life? Yes. That's forgiveness. You come here making sweeping, incorrect statements all the while with your agenda that is to dissuade people from helping us. Yet, neither Jesus nor God judges. The truth judges. Jesus is the truth. I am not taking anything out of context here. It falls to you as an individual to reconcile these things by learning the contexts, plural, as one. You will never understand how things ultimately ought to be unless you do.

If you know more than we do about these things, then interpret better how Jesus doesn't judge, yet is the truth, while the truth judges. If you don't know and can't tell us, don't attempt to instruct us, because it's fundamental and you don't know the basics.

We are all for people sharing what will add, but you come and detract.

All Sin in Not Equal

All sin carries the same penalty - death. Jesus said God hates divorce. Lies, murder, adultery, idolatry... its is all equal.

Who taught you that error? You need to stop listening to that voice. You need to tell that voice it's wrong.

Listen carefully now. Jesus didn't say all sin is equal. He said very clearly that sin is relative. He said there will be a different number of stripes for different sinners. The debts vary according to the acts. He said some have greater sins than others do.

Multiple Contexts as One

Quazi, you're making up things out of your imagination that are not supported by what Jesus taught or you're repeating garbage you've been fed and eaten from others who also don't know what they are talking about. You are not seeing the multiple contexts as one.

That is the consistent error within the churches that argue over things at cross-purposes out of arrogance and ignorance while all the things that ought to be done are left undone. It was the problem when Constantine I became the usurper of Christianity and put it to his evil cause of worldly Empire with its violence and greed and no doubt sexual depravity hiding right around the corner, as we've seen in so many of the Roman Catholic priests.

Christian-Zionism: Pinnacle, Immediate Problem

Homosexuality is not the pinnacle of a sin pyramid. Sin is sin. Plain and simple. Not to mention that he who breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments.

We haven't said this. In fact, we've said that currently it is Christian-Zionism that is the pinnacle, immediate problem. See for yourself. "Cato Antichrist: Part 9: Caveat Emptor: Jesus Has Warned." That will change.

Without the so-called Christian Zionist sycophants, the evil neoconservatives, the Machiavellians, would not have the backing they need to launch yet another abominable war or to continue the abominable wars they are waging now. They are not Christians. They seek to save their lives rather than to lose them in the name of Jesus and thereby truly gain life in the highest. Why have you not stood openly against them with us? Do you fear for your flesh life more than you love the truth?

The Thieves Are the Problem: Face Them

Whether you realize it or not, you are standing against us as we stand foursquare against the thieves of the rightful inheritance of everyone, including you, and as we seek to regain that inheritance by peacefully depriving the thieves of the cover of darkness. Don't you care that there are homeless and hungry only because of the thieves and abusers and liars, etc.? Do you know that Christians are to stand up to them and even face them down?

You don't come to say we are right about anything other than with your half-hearted, hardly lukewarm, statement that the Commons "looks like a good idea." Where do you stand on all the crucial positions we've taken. Why have you remained silent on those and only peek out to negatively criticize our exactly critique of homosexuality?

Nevertheless, you are wrong that all sins are of equal weight. They are not. Jesus himself said that the Jews have the greater sin than did Pontius Pilate. Do you dispute your own professed savior?

As for breaking the least and thereby breaking the greatest, the point is consistency and against hypocrisy. We have said nothing that disagrees with that. Perfection is the absence of all selfishness of heart. It is pure beneficence. That's the real God.

Running Down Charitable Donations

If you truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you.

Do you go around the Internet looking for people who are asking for charitable donations for group causes to tell each paid executive director of the given charity to quit his or her job? Do you do that concerning every church and every preacher? Do you tell them to stop asking for or taking up collections and that if they "truly want to serve God, great; go do it. Don't wait for people to empower you, let Jesus empower you," or have you just reserved this spiteful teaching of yours for the Real Liberal Christian Church?

Hypocrisy Exposed

As we mentioned above, you've said you're going to go into ministry fulltime. So to avoid hypocrisy, in addition to having no name for your ministry, you're also going to avoid asking for or taking donations because that would be other people empowering you to do works, right?

Do you advocate for everyone to be as you are? I hope they aren't. That's not to say you don't have some redeeming qualities that could be the start of the end of hypocrisy in you. I know you want your heart in the right place, but you have to repent of what you've come here to do and have done, which has been short-sighted and ignoble.

You also shared in your comments some examples of the works you call good that you've done or that your, as yet unnamed, congregation has done. What makes you think that we haven't helped others? Why do you assume that? Do you assume it because we haven't boasted about it? Please explain. Have you ever heard of doing thine alms in secret? At the same time, we aren't being secretive. We are being open. When we walk down the street though, we aren't broadcasting to be seen of men. We don't stand on the street corners sounding a trumpet about our works. We walk, "as it were in secret." When it's time to say our position, we say it. We aren't hard-sell salespeople. We don't put our foot in private doors uninvited. These things are consistent with Jesus's mentality that we gladly share with him. It isn't forced. It comes naturally. The truth comes out in a truthful way only.

Go Do? We Are

Jesus is a person. Who do you think has empowered us to create the website and to call people? What do you mean go do it? What do you think we're doing? That's what this is — doing it. We are calling people to come together while you aren't. That's what we've been charged by God to do — Conflate them. Why don't you want others to help us? What do you fear losing by people helping us? You do fear it.

We Have a Mouth from Jesus

Also, who's empowered you to come here to attempt to make us fall, to gainsay, to put us down? Do you think it is Jesus or Satan? Listen Quazi, I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. You haven't won here. Are you understanding that? You're just being exposed. You're tangling yourself in your talk. You're eating your words. It isn't we who have caused it. You came here wrapped in sheep's clothing seeking to put out our light, to consume it, to devour us. You wrote what you can't defend. Your arguments against us are being demolished here in public. That's why you were sent here. It's up to you whether or not you'll learn from it or just become hardened.

More Hypocrisy Exposed

Who empowers the congregation of which you said you are a member but not really? Do they not give money they possess to further their collective ideas? It is completely hypocritical of you to come here to say to us that we are wrong for passing the collection plate that people will then be sharing fruits that we might then continue laboring for the sake of many, many more, even everyone if they'll accept it. You speak to thwart. You come as the enemy in sheep's clothing. Why do make yourself that?

You wrote in an earlier comment that you want to start a commune that you'll call communal rather than communism, apparently in fear of the pejorative. Will this place have no name and ask for no donations? Do you feel your hypocrisy? Does it make you angry at us or yourself? You need to sort things out. You need to do some soul searching to see just how selfish versus unselfish your heart really is. You need to reflect. Look in the mirror. Get rid of your beam before you probed for a splinter in us, please.

What Spirit is Against the Commons?

The Real Liberal Christian Church and its Christian Commons is the means for many to focus their efforts together as no other device that has been historically offered. What's wrong with that? Why do you work against it? What spirit is against it? How can that spirit be good?

The first Apostles, those Paul called the Super Apostles, labored fulltime in the ministry. No disciple felt put upon for aiding in their keep. They understood the different parts of the body to keep the whole.

Which System

The question is one of system. There is the current worldly system that does not bring forth but rather makes things worse and hoards. Then there is the system called for by Jesus that will bring forth abundance for all. The current system (antichrist) is based upon false private property where people force their way into the labors of others. Then there is the system advocated by the anarcho-capitalists (antichrist) where the fruits of one's labor belong solely to that one. Then there is the truth (Christian) where all voluntarily enter into each other's labor. From that true system will flow abundance and not scarcity. It is the true economics. It is the true way. It is the way the house that is the Earth and Universe ought to be run.

You say the Commons is a good idea, but go do something other than what we have been doing. Listen, Quazi, when you know what you're talking about, we'll take instruction from you. Right now, you are no shepherd for any Christian.

Enter Into Each Other's Labor

As for people, we are to enter into each other's labors to bring forth on a huge scale. We are to do it individually together in a collective, a synergistic effort, just like what develops from the tiny mustard seed, a giant tree of many cells all of which acting together in faith provides for the many who aren't even all of the tree. Please don't fail this time to see the fuller context concerning the parable of the faith of the mustard seed. Jesus congregated them and then sent them with one message and one plan with one outcome. Why do you come around saying everything you can to thwart the Commons?

His ways of doing this is marvelous. I met a guy on the bus who had had such a heart for the homeless, but was unable to meet them on their level. So God made this man homeless. When I spoke to him, he was praising God for his homelessness because it equipped him to be able to minister to the homeless. I have met people that used their prosperity to adopt children with developmental disabilities.

What's your point? Does it prove Jesus doesn't want the Commons? It does not. Satan can rattle off a list of people helping people from the poor to the rich. Do you think we haven't met people who have helped people? George W. Bush has help people before. That doesn't mean his way is right and the Commons is wrong.

More Hypocrisy Exposed

Why do you assume that this person on the bus or this person with possessions has received a calling but we have not? Why are they right in your book to continue, but you tell us to change even when you said in an earlier comment that you don't seek to change people. You're being hypocritical all over the place, Quazi — Really!

Everyone is to do his or her best. Everyone is to hear and see that for which Jesus called. He instructed his inner circle that they are tasked with seeing to it that the flock is fed. Where are the shepherds that any of the flock ever goes hungry let alone starves to death by the tens of thousands while those shepherd stay disunited and enrich themselves?

Heaven or Hell of What?

Are you afraid of those false shepherds on high placed their by the rebellious one in Heaven? You do believe in the rebellious one don't you? Heaven is big. Heaven has competing kingdoms. That's a context, Quazi. One kingdom is Hell. You figure out the connotations yourself for once. The exercise for your brain will be good for you — seriously. If you try in earnest and still can't get it, let me know.

When Works Show Worth

I will end on this note: Salvation is found in God's mercy, not in trying to show our worth.

Whether you like it or not, you show your worth. The sheep and goats are divided according to those who remain iniquitous versus those who bring forth together as one flock. The sheep are worth more than the goats. The branches that bear good fruit are purged. The branches that bear rotten fruit are cut off and burned up, because they are worthless in terms of bringing forth the real fruit. It sounds as if you think Jesus was wasting his breath telling people to bring forth.

Why the Repetitive Accusations: Big Lie

Why are you accusing us of boasting? Upon what are you basing your accusation? We know that's your accusation, because you are speaking from Paul absent Jesus. You've been doing that since your first comment. Wherever your interpretation of Paul doesn't jibe with the teaching of Jesus, you've gone ahead anyway with your interpretation of Paul. You don't admit it though. You keep harping at us that we are committing the sin of pride and bragging. Why? Substantiate your allegations against us. Show where we have done this sin. Upon what are you basing this position of yours? What have we written that you've read that show us prideful or bragging? If you haven't seen it, why are you harping on it, Quazi? Why are you bearing false witness against us? Where have you gotten the idea that our motives are selfish?

As for salvation not being in showing one's worth, you have ignored all along everything we've shown you that Jesus said that makes clear that your position is wrong. Showing is what Jesus did. He told them to believe his works. When we point to this, you evade it. If we are wrong, then tell us how Jesus was wrong. He showed God. He showed his worth: Inestimable. He didn't do it selfishly or it wouldn't have been inestimable. He also showed God's mercy and grace and his faith in God. He did all of those things simultaneously. He was no burden, and people gave into his treasury while he did not hold down a job under the money interests of his day. Show us where we are wrong or stop, one or the other.


Do you know what showing means? Do you know what it means in the language of the revelation of Jesus Christ? Don't bother looking for it in Paul. You won't find it there without an unnecessary stretch. When you really show, what do you show? What worth do you show? When I consistently say come together to do what God and Jesus want, when I put my all into it, am I or am I not coming in the name of the LORD? What am I showing? We are Christ when Christ is within. We are Christ as we are given to be able to show. Christ is a spirit, as well as he came in the flesh, you realize. Don't get hung up as the Muslims, Quazi. That way leads nowhere.

If he hadn't showed God, would he himself have been saved by God? He would not have been the Christ. He would not have been worthy. This is a context within the full context. At that hour when he was troubled he could have run away and then not been the one. He stayed though so that among other things, they would do what they did so they would be marked and separated as the problems they were and still remain today, as is so evident in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere, all over.

Bad Theology

Your theology says help but don't come completely together. It says do good works, but don't give it your all. It says anyone calling for all Christians coming completely together in spirit to do exactly what Jesus calls for is somehow automatically prideful, bragging, and ultimately selfish. Your theology is to be a kind of false-friendly to the homosexuals, pampering them in their error, while watching them pull the world down into greater and greater sin, including more and more greed and more and more violence to get their way. How is that love? How is that as Jesus going into the temple and driving people and their livestock out, throwing their money (shekels and Roman) on the floor where it belonged, and turning over their tables all the while yelling at them? How friendly in your way was that? How gentle was it? You think he was mild, or do you think he was full of righteous indignation? Do you think it was right or wrong, harmless or harmful?

Fence Sitters

Listen Quazi, you have to choose up sides. That's the way it is. Fence sitters don't go in. They fall outside. Those who seek to remain within ingratiating distance of the powers that be are fence sitters. Stand in the gap. Quit hanging back. Your theology retards and has retarded since Jesus left. We reject it. It is unacceptable, insufficient, misled, and misleading. It won't get the job done. It isn't the solution. It is apologetic for the churlish. It is no liberal device by which all real Christians can stand together.

Good Theology: Radical, Extremist, and Alarmist

On the other hand, we love the theology that says come together to feed all the lambs and sheep and to do all the other things and to turn this evil world upside down with everything we have. That's Jesus's radical and extreme message whether you like it or not, and neither you nor anyone else can change it.

God Is Intervening

We've made clear that people will continue in the world working and will help as much as they are able. They will help by pooling their resources (including their money they possess but that isn't really theirs and never has been) by contributing to this effort. We will convert money into, among other things, land that will be farmed by members who will be fed, housed, clothed, etc., and will feed and clothe, etc., and spread the same spirit until the whole Earth is Christian, fed, housed, and clothed, etc., which it will be regardless of whether or not we remain on this Earth to see it before the resurrection. That's entering into each other's labor and the labor of Jesus who reaped and sowed, as we are doing. It will happen even though it will take God intervening to get the job done. God is already intervening simply by virtue of our writing these things and putting them out on the Internet that the evil ones seek to sew up.

All Free of Charge

The truth is that the Real Liberal Christian Church is right about all Christians needing to bring forth the Commons to feed the lambs and sheep (something you called a good idea, maybe). However, you speak in ways to diminish it. That shows your spirit. If it's good, it's good and needs to be done. You're trying to have your cake and to eat it too. You've avoided taking a firm position on the original Church that was communistic and the beginning of the model for all the Earth becoming Heaven too. We say you're flat wrong. We say that real communism (not Marxism) in the spirit of Jesus is Christianity. That communism is one heart and one soul and one purse that ends up empty and unneeded, because all will eat free of charge. All things in Heaven are free of charge. Heaven comes to Earth. Both are then new, born again, married, truly righteous, peaceful, and all the rest of the good.

This is Not the Wide Path

Quazi, this site isn't about quarreling. It is about warning through love and offering the solution, which it most definitely does. The path offered here is not the wide path to Hell. It is the narrow way starting from this dark, dark world.

Real Debate

You initially said you came not to debate. We don't mind people coming to debate. We want them to be interested in finding the truth. Otherwise, it's evil. You came not to debate, but you evaded our questions even though we answered yours. Then you returned brazenly to seek to rebuke us without cause, without reasoned, rational thought, for our statements concerning homosexuality.


If you reply with other than having specifically addressed each of our pointed questions to you, you will be seen as a charlatan.

God Bless: Mercy

God bless everyone. God bless all the greedy, all the violent, and all the unwholesome, for if God blesses them, they will turn, repent, atone, and bring forth Heaven (the Commons) together and God will save the world because it will have shown its worth. It will have merited mercy. Do we deserve mercy? Then show it. Have you been merciful toward us, Quazi? We aren't being unmerciful toward you.

The kingdom is taken away and given to the new nation, a spiritual nation, bringing forth the fruits thereof on Earth as Heaven, as one.



The following should appear at the end of every post:

According to the IRS, "Know the law: Avoid political campaign intervention":

Tax-exempt section 501(c)(3) organizations like churches, universities, and hospitals must follow the law regarding political campaigns. Unfortunately, some don't know the law.

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from participating in any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. The prohibition applies to campaigns at the federal, state and local level.

Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes. Section 501(c)(3) private foundations are subject to additional restrictions.

Political Campaign Intervention

Political campaign intervention includes any activities that favor or oppose one or more candidates for public office. The prohibition extends beyond candidate endorsements.

Contributions to political campaign funds, public statements of support or opposition (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of an organization, and the distribution of materials prepared by others that support or oppose any candidate for public office all violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention.

Factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:

  • Whether the statement identifies one or more candidates for a given public office
  • Whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval of one or more candidates' positions and/or actions
  • Whether the statement is delivered close in time to the election
  • Whether the statement makes reference to voting or an election
  • Whether the issue addressed distinguishes candidates for a given office

Many religious organizations believe, as we do, that the above constitutes a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That said, we make the following absolutely clear here:

  • The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project not only do not endorse any candidate for any secular office, we say that Christianity forbids voting in such elections.
  • Furthermore, when we discuss any public-office holder's position, policy, action or inaction, we definitely are not encouraging anyone to vote for that office holder's position.
  • We are not trying to influence secular elections but rather want people to come out from that entire fallen system.
  • When we analyze or discuss what is termed "public policy," we do it entirely from a theological standpoint with an eye to educating professing Christians and those to whom we are openly always proselytizing to convert to authentic Christianity.
  • It is impossible for us to fully evangelize and proselytize without directly discussing the pros and cons of public policy and the positions of secular-office holders, hence the unconstitutionality of the IRS code on the matter.
  • We are not rich and wouldn't be looking for a fight regardless. What we cannot do is compromise our faith (which seeks to harm nobody, quite the contrary).
  • We render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. We render unto God what is God's.
  • When Caesar says to us that unless we shut up about the unrighteousness of Caesar's policies and practices, we will lose the ability of people who donate to us to declare their donations as deductions on their federal and state income-tax returns, we say to Caesar that we cannot shut up while exercising our religion in a very reasonable way.
  • We consider the IRS code on this matter as deliberate economic duress (a form of coercion) and a direct attempt by the federal government to censor dissenting, free political and religious speech.
  • It's not freedom of religion if they tax it.

And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (Matthew 17:24-26)

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • ahmedinajad

      The following issue can destroy Islam, Zionist racist Israel and the teachings of the church and not the way of Jesus which is perfect. Research the below small thesis to see if there is any truth to it.

      Read the following passages from the bible as it has implications on the war against terror/Islam and the claim of Israel that God gave them the land. If the child is an infant than the Judeo-Christian version becomes null and void and we are wasting our time and resources i.e. we could save trillions of dollars and create a more peaceful world rather than fighting against Islam the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

      The covenant with Abraham and his descendants is central to Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

      Please note this is not a competition between faiths but an attempt to decipher fact from fiction.

      Genesis 21:14 Contemporary English version se below link;

      Early the next morning Abraham gave Hagar an animal skin full of water and some bread. Then he put the boy on her shoulder and sent them away.

      Genesis 16:16

      And Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram called the name of his son, whom Hagar bore, Ish’mael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ish’mael to Abram.

      Genesis 21:5

      Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

      At Genesis 22 Abraham had only 2 sons others came later. The Quran mentions that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed hence the reference in genesis 22:2 your only son can only mean someone has substituted Ishmael names for Isaac!!

      By doing some kindergarten arithmatic using Arabic numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)

      Not roman numerals (I, II, III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X) NB no concept of zero in roman numerals.

      100 years old – 86 years old = 14 add 3 years for Issac’s weaning

      That would make Ishmael 17 years old in genesis 21:14-21

      But it is a description of an infant.

      Carefully read several times the above passage and then tell me the mental picture you get between the mother child interactions what is the age of the child. If the mental picture is that of a 17 year old child being carried on the shoulder of his mother, being physically placed in the bush, crying like a baby, mother having to give him water to drink, than the Islamic viewpoint is null and void. Why is there no verbal communications between mother and (17 year old) child?

      Genesis: 21:14 - 21

      So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, along with the (17 year old) child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she cast the (17 year old) child under one of the bushes. Then she went, and sat down over against him a good way off, about the distance of a bowshot; for she said, “Let me not look upon the death of the (17 year old) child.” And as she sat over against him, the (17 year old) child lifted up his voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the (17 year old) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 year old) lad where he is. Arise, lift up the (17 year old) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the (17 year old) lad a drink. And God was with the (17 year old) lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

      The age of Ishmael at this stage is crucial to the Abrahamic faiths. If he is 17 than the Judeo/Christian point of view about the Abrahamic covenant is correct. This has devastating theological consequences of unimaginable proportions.

      This makes the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac and there descendants a work of fiction. I would strongly suggest it is clear cut case of racial discrimination and nothing to do with God almighty. The scribes have deliberately tried to make Isaac the only son and legitimate heir to the throne of Abraham??

      Please can you rationally explain this anomaly?

      I have asked many persons including my nephews and nieces - unbiased minds with no religious backgrounds but with reasonable command of the English language about this passage and they all agree that the child in the passage is an infant.

      As the description of Ishmael in genesis 21:14-21 is that of an infant it can be assumed someone has moved this passage from an earlier part of scripture!!! And have got there knickers in a twist.

    • Hello Ahmedinajad,

      Firstly, your comment was automatically filtered as spam. It had too many links. For future reference, limit your links to three or fewer. Some sites will consider all comments with more than one link as spam, and the comment won't be shown right away if ever.

      Secondly, you used all capital letters too much. I had to go through your comment manually to change the case for many sentences and words, etc. Please avoid using all capital letters.

      Thirdly, your comment contained way too much extraneous text at the end.

      Fourthly, I have only had a very brief time to just overview your comment. When I'm done with the project on which I'm currently working, I will come back to your comment, give it my undivided attention, and render a reply.

      Thank you for visiting our website and leaving a comment.

      God bless all,


    • Hello Tom,

      Wow. We did not know you had written to us. We have not checked out your site in a long time as you can see. Not since Quazi wrote last in October.

      We will be happy to review our converations and answer your questions. Since you had erased, or put those converstaions in a location we were unable to find, we thought maybe you were done talking with us.

      Thanks for putting them in a easy to find format. We will review and do our best to answer your questions. If you don't mind we do remeber asking you some questions that you had not responded to, so we may bring those into the current conversation if we still think we would like an answer. We are going to review first.

      The Heavenly Father's Peace be with you.

      Quazi & Saijah

    • Hello Saijah and Quazi,

      The post above is for the benefit of all who read it.

      Nothing has been erased or moved, and the navigation format from comment to post has remained the same since before your last comment in November.

      To the best of our knowledge, we answered all of your questions to one degree or another; however, you have not recognized them or have reacted with a degree of contempt. We resorted to the Socratic Method to uncover where you are blocked from comprehending; however, you ignored that. Without direct responses in this case, expectations of fulfillment are hardly justified.

      We wish to spend our time in ways that will prove fruitful. We aren't interested in dwelling tiresomely on matters that have already been more than amply explained with no further hope of success with given persons. We trust people understand that and agree.

      God bless all,


    • Hello Tom,

      In regards to our inability to find our posts before, we will accept full responsibility, maybe we were looking in the wrong place. But at any rate the more important question is Do you wish for us to answer your questions or has that boat sailed? We only offer to do so in the hand of friendship. We are sad you misunderstood our silence. we have been very busy in our lives since October. Between ministering to ill family members and other folks the LORD JESUS brings our way. We just haven't taken much time to keep up any internet coorespondence including yours. It is your website. We do not want to disrespect you. Do you want to hear our answers to your previous questions?

      Thanks for your reply

      Jehovah Bless you with knowledge of THE HOLY which is understanding.

      Quazi & Saijah

    • Hello Saijah and Quazi,

      First, let me say that when I addressed the issue of people not responding, I was not referring to you alone, far from it.

      Second, when I raised that point of people not responding or answering, I was not talking solely about giving no reply at all but also concerning replies that fail to answer questions aimed at getting to the truth as best we are able (at least striving for it mightily). That second aspect applies to you. The fact that time had gone by since your last reply was not at issue concerning you in my mind.

      Also, by saying striving mightily, I am not saying that we don't know any truth. There are absolutes if one is given to comprehend. To elaborate slightly, let me say that absolutes are in the eye of the beholder, meaning each person will have a conceptualization or definition of "absolute" and that definition will be satisfied or not by that persons conceptualization of God for instance.

      The point here is that many people go about spreading their ideologies, philosophies, and theologies, and the like, without the willingness to be probed for error.

      Third, I understand that when one hasn't visited a site in awhile that one's memory concerning site-navigation may need refreshing. He or she may need a bit to readjust. It isn't a sin.

      Fourth, you may have returned to the site after you made your last comment but before I wrote and published my reply that is above, as the main post on this web page. I was put off by your opposition to my warning people in general and the homosexuals themselves about the proven and well documented physical, mental, and spiritual harm of homosexuality and other sexual emotions, thoughts, and behaviors. Further, I was put off by your degrading the Christian Commons Project, claiming that it is not part of the narrow way. Lastly, I was put off that you would oppose and demean my work while still neglecting to address the questions I had taken the time to pose in direct response to your requests for information.

      Fifth, I understand fully that people have many things put on their plates and they cannot always drop things just to continue some thread on a website. May God bless your relative(s) and the others whom you have been looking after.

      Sixth, as for friendship, there are degrees of friendship. We are acquaintances. We are not confidants. So far, we have not had a meeting of the minds. We don't trust each other's exegesis. I understand that you are using the word friend more in the sense of well-intentioned. I don't disagree that being well-intentioned is a starting place. Nevertheless, the adage that "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" has its proper place as well. What I have been trying to do is define "good" such that applying that definition one will not be headed down the wide path to Hell. It is our position that many people hide behind a façade of graciousness to avoid confronting hypocritical behavior that is much more damaging than is bluntness. In fact, we hold that this is much of the reason for so-called civilized society murdering many millions of innocents. We hold that it is inconsiderate not to break with such polite society to make the weightier point that such society is turning a blind eye to wanton slaughter and nearly all the other most salient evils of our time. We aren't advocating the abandonment of politeness and courtesy. We are advocating the proper setting of priorities. Telling the truth concerning the harm being done in the name of various things often cuts through false civility. After all, what's civil, in that sense, about the Iraq War? It's rather rude and impolite, to say the least, to do what the neocons have done and are still doing in Iraq. We say that that stems directly from their improper exegesis as well.

      Seventh, the ball is in your court, so to speak. If you want to reply in full, fine. If not, that's your choice. If you do reply and I feel that further discussion would be futile, I won't do much more then express that and move ahead. That's consistent with how Jesus Christ communicated. If you feel we have already reached that point of futility, I will just move ahead.



    • Hi There.

      Real quick... My uncle just got out of the hospital....we really will get back to you in a couple days....

      Thanks for the opportunity to respond.

      Happy New Year


    • December 31, 2007

      Hello Tom,

      Thank you for the opportunity to properly respond. We didn’t mean to give the impression your questions were not valid or relevant.

      After reviewing all the posts / comments we realized the questions you are referring to are mainly from the comment section of POST # 2 Sept 28. These answers are not in the order in which they were asked. We hope that is okay.

      Saijah had written:

      “Quazi and I would like to thank you for your generous explanations of what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to you. Your explanations have given us a little more insight into your ministry goals.

      We will stand by our statements, as I am sure you stand by yours. With that said we do have some other inquires we would like to make concerning your church.”

      What followed were a series of questions from us we felt would be appropriate to ask in getting to know you and your fellows. Metaphorically speaking, since we were guests in your house, knowing guests have certain privileges we decided to change the subject. We were satisfied by your answers. Contrary to your thoughts we did not come here to debate.

      What we did not expect or respect was that you were not satisfied and you did not wish to change the subject.

      We beg your forgiveness and mercy for our insensitivity.

      The first question we wish to address is in response to our asking you how you came about making Isaiah 32:5 your banner verse for the web page. This was your response:

      Tom asked: “Also, what does Isaiah 32:5 mean to you at this point?”

      At first your answer put us off because you didn’t just answer the question, you passed it back. But then in a later comment you did give a very clear explanation. So thanks for clarifying. This verse doesn’t really mean that much to us. You are probably correct that it may be we are closed to it. We trust the Holy Spirit and the content He chooses for us to learn and understand. When the time is appropriate we will understand Isaiah 32:5 according to HIS exceeding Riches in Glory. Not having the same understanding as you will not diminish our faith, nor should it diminish your conviction. We believe Jesus reveals Himself differently at times to HIS Followers. We asked about the verse because we are curious and wanted to know why it was so important to YOU. We understand it is important to you because of your conviction that up until this point Christianity has not been Real, or Liberal according to this verse. We hope we have understood you correctly.

      Another question you asked us:

      Do you believe in Acts 4:32? Do you believe that this is the way Jesus commands his followers to be? “‘And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.” Acts 4:32 If you disagree, why do you? Were those disciples wrong? If you agree, is it the Christian Commons or not? If not, why not? If it is, are you prepared to help?

      We believe that all scripture is inspired by the LORD of HOSTS. Yes we do see Act 4:32 as valid inspired scripture. Do we believe this is the way Jesus commands his followers to be, to make community…. for all time? Is that what you mean there? We could say Yes and No. Yes in that Jesus instructed us to be of one heart, of one soul walking in HIS Love and loving one another. But did Jesus ever preach or commission the followers to put all their resources into “common”, no we don’t believe that.

      Tom You can believe that, we are not here to debate your conviction.

      We are just answering your questions. We believe the followers of Jesus after the resurrection were under incredible stress and persecution. We feel these followers coalesced for a number of reasons, one being survival. After the first Acts fellowship of believer’s were all murdered or chased out of Jerusalem in 70 AD we don’t really see the same model of community for believers in any other testimonies of the Bible. History of the “church” illustrates that various groups along the lines of the early Anabaptists or Waldenses (?spelling) who were a tight knit group who did share commonly to some capacity. But even their present day offspring the Amish do not hold ALL things in common. They own separate property, hold separate resources, and have their own wealth. They are not above sharing and giving within the particular Amish community proper. But they do not have ONE Common “purse” as it were. They are not the best model, they are just a quick example.

      Jesus and his disciples did keep a common purse but we figure that was as much a part of drawing them into trust with HIM, as it made it easier to conduct the business of the day. No where do we see Peter or the others selling their homes, causing their whole families to be wanderers with Jesus. We see them going from house to house being cared for and in turn ministering to. We have found no parables that speak of community pockets. A lot of the parables dealing with the kingdom of God show a wise ruler, someone with all the money, a king, so on. One such person in a couple parables gave wages to his servants. We do not witness the servants pooling their resources.

      We do not believe that Jesus preached was against personal possessions or property. He was against Greed and idolatry. Neither the behaviors of Greed and Idolatry are necessarily corrected by having a community purse. An important factor to be considered is: Can and will the people trust the one who holds the purse? In your Commons model someone(s) must be the steward(s) of that common purse. Judas Iscariot held the community purse and seemed a trustworthy man. But scripture teaches us that responsibility of the purse did not override his propensity to theft.

      When Jesus sent out the 70 in pairs He gave no instruction that one should hold the purse. In fact Jesus sent them out penniless, dependant on the mercy and generosity of those they would preach to.

      Of course we do not think the disciples of Acts 4:32 were wrong. It isn’t about wrong or right. It is about a testimony. We do believe is the picture of the early community of Followers of Jesus just might be a “shadow of things to come”. It is very likely the persecution that is coming to the USA will sift the true believer’s from the “churchians”. Those True Followers of Jesus might just need to huddle together, share and share alike. We are not saying your idea is not a plausible one.

      Could believers in 2008 choose to live in a community, putting all their resources into a “common” account? Sure, why not? Is your description of the “COMMONS” the only way of doing community and serving Jesus? We don’t really think so. Are we prepared to help?

      We suppose this is about helping with money donations. No we are not prepared to give you money at this time. Are there any other ways to support your ministry?

      We are not against community property or communism as you like to call it. Our difference of opinion has more to do with our understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. With that said we approach the next question.

      Tom you wrote “Please tell us what we have answered you to this point with which you disagree–don’t stand by, if anything.”

      The following is Quazi & Saijah not standing by.

      From Post # 3 Oct 5th

      Saijah wrote, “We are aware that you did not agree with our position.” …

      (Tom you inserted after Saijah’s quote) “… You (Saijah) quoted Paul and raised the Protestant interpretations of grace and faith. I expounded upon that stating how Protestants have abused those terms to shirk the obligation to bring forth the Christian Commons. The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have also failed to be found so doing. All the nations that have had the word preached in them also now stand judged for their lack of real fruit. In order for you to help me to answer the further questions you asked, I in turn, asked you to inform me where you disagree, if at all. This was not to be harmful. Do you take exception to grace, faith, deeds, and fruits being simultaneous requirements? Does the implication that deeds and faith are inextricable disturb you? Have you been indoctrinated into the five solas? Have you been heavily influenced by the scriptural interpretation of those calling themselves conservative Calvinists and Lutherans? Do you stand back from the Christian Commons and Real Liberal Christianity based upon these solas? Are you more concerned about voicing a temporal order of grace, faith, and works than about doing the works that proved Jesus was Christ, per Jesus? God is grace, faith, and works. Which of these did he first, since he is beyond time? This is no stumbling block. God said, “Let there be light.”

      We suppose the first place to begin is with your exception to Paul. It is a shame you have chosen to blacklist this author of inspired scripture just because his work was so easily perverted by the preachers and priests of denominations. We will attempt to share our understanding of the Gospel of Jesus solely with the scripture from 4 “gospels” and Isaiah. We hope you approve.

      As it appears in your writings the Catholics, the Protestants, the Orthodox, Calvinists and Lutherans have disappointed or offended you by their interpretations. But we hardly think it appropriate to lay that ax to grind on us. We really are very clueless as to what the “five solas” are and to date have not really taken any time to look it up. We simply are not interested in doctrines of men. We just read the Bible. We ask the Holy Spirit to discern and give us understanding. We do not read books on doctrine. We might have some agreement with some teachings of those in denominations, but it is possible these teachings are actually from the Holy Spirit. If Followers of Jesus are of the same Spirit, they should agree in some teachings once in awhile.

      It is okay if we disagree with your understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are free to believe and teach as you wish. Our disagreement with you should not be such a federal offense. We are secure in our faith. We are not trying to usurp your convictions or beliefs.

      You want to know what we “disagree” with in your explanations of your understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After reviewing all 4 of your posts we have concluded these understandings about The Gospel of Jesus Christ according to RLCC.

      • You write that Jesus came to teach us how and why to do “good” works.

      • You write Jesus came to teach us how to establish and run the “Commons” until He returns to heal the Earth.

      • You write Jesus has commissioned His followers to put all earthly recourses into one community purse and to be a light of communism TO the world so they can see their error and change from hardheartedness to the softhearted ways of the Commons.

      • You explained that the true followers of the Commons/Jesus would be gentle as doves not inflicting disease or other sexual harm on the planet.

      • You wrote the Commons/ the RLCC is REAL and is representing a Liberal heart according to Isaiah 32:5

      • You wrote that the Commons is salvation, and it is Heaven. You wrote the Commons is God because God is in all things and of all things.

      We realize there is more but these seem to be the main points.

      We can agree with your teachings that Jesus came to teach us how to love one another as He loved us. He showed us good works to do. Jesus does expect to see good fruit from the trees of HIS planting.

      We are realizing the place where your path goes one way and ours goes in another direction is in regards to who Jesus IS.

      • You have decided not to acknowledge Jesus as the Lamb of God Slain from the Foundations of the Earth for the remission of sins.

      • You have decided to teach that sins are not an issue as long as we join the Commons, donate money, and follow the extensive doctrines of the Commons.

      • You teach that good works like those examples of Jesus and the people of Act 4:32 is our salvation.

      You write: “The cross is atoning. We are to take up our crosses. We are to atone. We are to be sacrificial for the sake’s of our friends who are those who know and love the truth when they hear it that unselfishness is better than selfishness and perfect unselfishness is God.”

      This is a noble thought, but it is not the teaching of Jesus. He told us to love EVERYONE, not just our friends. He said to sacrifice for our enemies as well. He said to turn the other cheek, to sacrifice our rights and FORGIVE our enemies and also to pray for them. (MATT 5:44)

      DO you not agree that Jesus DIED for EVERYONE, the whole world, friend and foe???

      John 3:1 – 36

      We do not believe or teach that the cross is salvation. It could have been any weapon that would have resulted in Jesus death. It is the blood not the weapon that has any power. Not unlike the serpent stick Moses held up for the plagued Israelites to look upon. It was not the stick that cleansed them of the curse it was the obedience in looking up as the LORD of HOSTS commanded them to.

      We do not believe the MAIN purpose of Jesus’ death and resurrection was just to teach how to do good things.

      We believe the Main purpose for Jesus death and resurrection is the foundational understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

      • Jesus came as prophecy spoke of, He lived and was tempted as all men are and yet as Isaiah prophesied He would choose “only the good” Isaiah 7:15

      • Jesus is the Man of sorrows as Isaiah 53: 3.

      • Jesus is from the Heavenly Father to do the work of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the Earth. John the Baptist recognized this as recorded in John 1:36. This lamb was to be slain for the sins of the world. This Blood just like the blood of the Passover Lamb was to cover God’s people from the angel of Death.

      • God’s children, His People are as Jesus speaks in John chapter 3, those who are Born Again.

      • Jesus speaks of everlasting life, and He speaks of having the power to return back to Heaven and how He will give us the power of eternal Life IF we believe. John chap. 17

      What are we to believe?” More and more upon reading and listening to instruction of the Holy Spirit, we keep coming back to the same thing. Given the entire account of Jesus life from the Apostle JOHN we realize we are to believe Jesus is the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the Earth. Hung on a cross, blood spilt not for fleshly purpose, no real earthly offense. He hung there specifically for the purpose of clearing a spiritual debt between The Creator and HIS creation, humanity. That is grace, mercy, faithfulness and love.

      No greater love is this than when a man lays His life down for His friends. Jesus says He lays his life down of His own accord, NO one took it. He chose to lay it down, and had the power to take it up again on the 3rd day. He was the only one who could offer Himself as the Spotless, Blameless Lamb of God.

      Why did we need a spotless, blameless Lamb to die for us?

      We believe Jehovah put the knowledge of evil and good before Adam & Eve. It may have been a test, it defiantly was a choice.

      Believe your Creator who tells the Truth that eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil brings death


      Choose your own curiosity.

      Well Tom, You know the rest of the story. And we are still cursed with choosing between evil and good. Truthfully it is up to every man, woman, and child to discern what good they want to know, and the evil they want to know. All the choices are out there. Jehovah God has not made this choice that hard. He has taken a lot of effort to show us contrasts between good and evil. He has taken a lot of effort to show us how to “choose” to know the good and reject the evil. He has shown His Authority, Splendor, Power, Majesty, Sovereignty, and Truth. If anyone takes the time to read any of the billions of Bibles printed in thousands of languages, they can know this Creator and what this Creator’s expectations of HIS creation are. Jehovah has met HIS Creation in a variety of ways over time from Adam to now. After this physical life is done there will be a judgment. It is spoken of in Revelation after all flesh dies all the souls will be called to the Throne of the Creator of Heaven and Earth. Thus we have Jesus and a new choice.

      We can choose to believe Jesus told the truth when He said He is the Way the Truth and the Life and no one can live with the Heavenly Father eternally except through JESUS, except one be Born Again through the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth,


      We can believe whatever we like and inherit eternal separation from the Life Giver.

      We can choose to believe the Heavenly Father said “Believe in my only Begotten Son, Jesus and you will live eternally”


      We can choose to believe whatever we like and inherit eternal separation from the Life Giver

      That is it in a nut shell.

      “And I (John in a vision) saw a great white throne, and HIM that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

      (Rev 20:11-15)

      For those who HEAR the WORD of God, they are accountable for what they hear and how they respond.

      The question is “What will we choose to know… the evil or the good?”

      Quazi and Saijah choose Jesus because we REALLY Believe He is the GOOD. And we follow Him as He calls us. You say you choose Jesus and you are following HIM the way you think He is leading you. Why can’t that be enough? How are we stumbling your ability to love and follow God as you understand?

      Tom, we know you have your own ideas to reconcile all the verses you have read on this subject. We are not trying to change your mind. As you requested we are just clarifying the differences between our understandings. We can’t force you to see what we understand any more than you can get us to believe what you understand.

      But this is OUR answer to YOUR question. We agree with you that Jesus’ message is of love, and community, and hope. But Jesus is more than just a message. He is the Savior of the whole world because we need a Savior. To make the Gospel solely about good works and dramatically changing the evil of the world demeans the Gospel.

      To speak only that it is about mercy, forgiveness and grace also demeans the Gospel. If we refuse to deal with the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ which is about mercy and forgiveness AS WELL as good works that lead people to Jesus following HIS commandments to make the world full of HIS Light, we demean it and turn we diminish ourselves as HIS Followers. Let’s not be tempted to slice the truth up into convenient pieces for our own purposes.

      Jesus spoke of the wrath that is to come. You feel that wrath has come and gone. Well our comment for you is this, if that is so, then God’s wrath was really not such a big deal was it? If all Jesus prophecies were just in regards to the Roman takeover of Jerusalem, what about all the testimony of the Apostle John in Revelation? Did that already happen too? How about Daniel’s prophecies?? Jesus and John do cross references Daniel.

      So if you are ready to move onto another subject this is where we would like to go. We are interested in your verses and understanding of how the Commons fits into the testimonies of John. Feel free to take some time to chew for a while.

      We have some other inquiries and comments.

      We would like to see the face of RLCC.

      • Is RLCC multi- generational?

      • Is RLCC Multi-racial?

      • Literally at this moment as you read this letter, do you have any other members besides yourself, Tom? Do you have a wife? Do you have children?

      • While you wait for the fruition of the land and buildings of the Commons what are some of the daily good works you are doing to promote the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to your definition?

      • We know you told us previous you do not collaborate or volunteer with other mercy giving organizations because you do not agree with them. But we are wondering if you are doing anything besides sitting and typing?

      We know you want to make some positive changes to the world. For that we applaud you. We are trying to expand the one dimensional intellectual picture you offer. Don’t be offended but after reading a lot of the other posts and comments it appears your audience has come to the same conclusion. Is Tom just sitting at his computer posting and writing?? Really you can’t blame us. You are asking us to give money to basically words on a page, basically just to pay your rent. A workman is worth his wages, and we are just asking to understand why you deserve to be the “keeper of the Common Purse”? Why should we trust you?

      It is not hard hearted to be skeptical. Jesus warned us to be careful, to be “wise as serpents”. You want us to believe you are a really good guy who deserves our hard earned cash. And yet you really have not proved that fact to us. Aside from doctrines and teaching we do not see anything manifesting from this ministry. We do not believe it takes mass amounts of money to do the good works of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave you some very useful tools to catalyze change without donations. Jesus didn’t need a lot of money to spark His changes. He didn’t even have a roof to pay rent for.

      • For one if you are Born Again you can ask for the Holy Spirit to dwell within you to instruct you, be your comforter, your friend, your guide.

      • We know you don’t like Paul but really he said some pretty encouraging things like if we want to change the world we just need to walk in the Spirit, and stop walking after the flesh. Jesus produced good fruit every where HE went, and HIS followers should be producing His good fruit as well. Do you produce Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self control? Regardless of your irritation with Paul and the folks who misuse his words, don’t you agree Jesus taught us how to manifest these good works??

      • Just think what would happen to the Earth if those who really Believe Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and stopped playing church and honestly Lived according to the Holy Spirit? We would not be surprised if these true believers did choose to live in common community. But even believers get caught up in the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, the pride of life. Praise God there is forgiveness for that. Praise God if we confess our sins HE is just and faithful to forgive us our sins. We have an opportunity to start over. Being Born Again has many privileges.

      We are not being mean to you. We are looking for more evidence you are worthy of a tithe and or offering. Think on these things and ask the LORD Jesus for HIS guidance and direction. It has been almost a year, it may be time to start asking yourself how you are standing in your own way and discouraging donations. It is easy to just say it is “OUR” fault, your audience. We are just too hardhearted. But is that really the problem??

      Thanks for letting us share.

      As always we Pray the Peace of Jesus on you and your household

      Quazi and Saijah.

    • The following linked-comment was too long for DISQUS:

    • To: Quazi & Saijah

      A great deal of emphasis has been placed upon the term "liberal." However, even more important is the term "churl." It is the churls who have obscured the Christian requirement to be liberal, to be simultaneously generous and not morally unrestrained and licentious (harmful). The churls are in charge. The stingy, miserly, and avaricious are in charge. They don't want people to know the real meaning of liberal. Nor do they want people who want to act in accordance with correct Christian interpretation knowing that liberality doesn't mean license to do whatever one wants but rather the requirement to bring forth only bountifully and beneficially. This is why I have ...nor the churl said to be bountiful. (Isaiah 32:5) so clearly placed atop the website. The churls are the current false libertarian-conservatives who seek to conserve the tradition of falsehood that is their self-defined economic legal system that is nothing more than the totally unenlightened law of the jungle. They are humanists first and foremost. I believe there is a place for humanism under God. This is why the term "secular humanism" arose, to differentiate it from Christian concerns for the welfare of fellow human beings, which Jesus emphasized when he said those who feed and clothe, etc., God's children are also feeding and clothing the King. The King considers them an integral part of himself, and rightly so.

      You also asked about ways to support this ministry. If you will read, "Ways to Support the Real Liberal Christian Church," that should give you some ideas.

      Another thing I wanted to flesh out some more, concerns your view of sitting and typing. In the beginning of the Christian Commons Project™, someone writes. Another farms or makes shoes or windmills. Some do multiple tasks. Most rotate around as the need arises and the Spirit moves the whole.

      When there are members and volunteers enough, I won't have to spend so much time sitting and typing. Tasks may then be broken up. Tasks may then be delegated as the body of the Church sees fit. Don't you think I look forward to doing all the other things entailed in bringing forth the Christian Commons Project™ and the feeding of his lambs and sheep? I want to roll up my sleeves, literally, and work the soil and do all sorts of other things all for the sake of the many. I don't want to work for self, as especially so many Libertarians come here to press me to want to do. I reject their temptation. It isn't even tempting at all. It repulses me. I'm sick of their preaching selfishness. The world has had more than enough of that! It never should have had any of it.

      Now does that sound like it's coming out of the heart of a greedy televangelists or a con artist? If it does, you just don't get it.

      For you, the main question is now that of trustworthiness and money. For you, it's not a matter of whether or not small-c, Christian communism (non-Marxist), community property, communalism, or whatever you wish to term it, is acceptable or even desirable. For you, it isn't whether or not sitting and typing all day is a good bit of work. For you, it's a question of whether or not someone will abscond with the purse. For many others who come here, however, collectivism of any kind, to any degree, is an assault upon their individual freedom, as only they define the term "freedom." Many don't define freedom as being free from want. However, much more importantly, many don't define it as being free from the evil of selfishness. They rather laud selfishness, which of course, as you are well aware, is a very antichrist spirit to hold or to promote. In addition, what follows from that is their position that anyone doing any work for the unselfish purpose of a collective effort to bring forth what Jesus said to bring forth (that includes feeding his lambs and sheep), unless that effort is done for-profit or is at least subservient to the for-profit system, those people, those workers, don't really have a real "job," again, as only the naysayers define the term "job." For many of these misled and misleading people, a real job is where people pay one for working for selfish profit. The moment anyone receives funds for working for or running an unselfish enterprise, that one is not only not working a real job but is engaging in evil deception and is hiding a selfish agenda, has to be a hypocrite since everyone has to be according to these Hobbists. This of course is antichrist and basically atheistic, albeit not all-inclusive of the meaning of atheism in the common parlance.

      Now, as for trusting the one with the purse, if you will read the applicable sections of the




      you will see that the plan includes general-accepted safeguards for accessing Church financial accounts. The plan is to require more than one signature on checks above a certain amount. Other such accounting and financial procedures can be, and will be, put into place as the accounts grow and as there are more members (hence more board members and those available to work in accounting). You will also see that the entire process is simultaneously bottom-up and top-down, which really translates into level. The object is to rotate people around so that all may be as well-rounded as possible. Among other things, this will train people to begin other commons locations. Understand that those CANONS are only the starting place for doing things correctly.

      I hope this additional information helps you.


    • Saijah and Quazi,

      Concerning the issue of financial transparency and the questions you asked me about what I've done personally by way of alms giving and other deeds,

      I added the following to my comment of Jan. 1, above:

      Please see: Christianity, Open-Book Accounting (Financial Transparency), and Doing Thine Alms in Secret. Also, on our Finance page, I stated the following policy that is as consistent with Jesus's teachings as I'm able to make it:

      Our aim is transparency or what is called open-book accounting. With the exception of protecting donors and people under confidential pastoral care, we will lean toward sharing our accounting with our membership.

      We will endeavor to post general accounting information on our website.

      I thought I would point this out to you since you may have already read that comment above and may have intended to return to it.


    • Hello Tom,

      As always it is a pleasure conversing with you. We appreciate your gentle tone and “teaching” style. Sorry we took so long to respond. Since your last letter we have a new found appreciation for you. We have asked some straightforward questions about you personally and the others of the RLCC. We admit we were goading you a bit. In retrospect we realized that was rude. How can we Love You and be rude? We do apologize and hope for your forgiveness. We do not want to harass you. We are not going to bait you and treat you like a fool. As you see we are not the best writers and we feel our heart is getting lost in the translation most of the time. We appreciate your transparency.

      Tom, since we started this exchange we have been asking The Heavenly Father if you are telling the truth. We believe Abba Father that you are telling the truth about your faith, work, passion, hope and vision. We understand a little better that for the purpose of your goals and timetables the RLCC is an internet church. Reaching out to the internet community by posting articles and commenting on such is all a part of your ministry, and your work. With every letter we begin to see more clearly what this is all about, and we are hopeful with you and for you.

      We asked ABBA if you had a need we could send you money for. We heard “no”. We are sure you are surprised by that. But we hear from ABBA He is caring for your needs. Truly you must rejoice and Praise HIS Holy Name for He is taking good care of you right now.

      As for the RLCC requests for donations for land and so on. We asked ABBA Father about that as well and again He said “No”. We trust His Will and we promise if ABBA releases us to donate in the future, we will.

      We respect your courage to start a church that hopes to encompass the world. What we came looking for was a tangible REAL testimony to what the RLCC ministry of giving and sharing looks like, and how it works. We realize your efforts are still developing. So as long as Yahweh directs us we will watch RLCC grow, and pray for you. You ask us what we are praying for. We are praying the Holy Spirit will lead people to join you. We are praying you are able to see the fruit of this labor, and show a tangible testimony of how giving and sharing works. It may seem hardhearted we are not choosing to be part of “the people” we are praying will come to RLCC. As we have explained we are strictly street ministers by the calling of the Holy Spirit upon us. Recently the Holy Spirit has been focusing us on a new horizon. But we would like to address a few of your comments/ questions before sharing that.

      We do not have a web site. We started a Blog once, but we just did not have the time needed to make it relevant or contemporary. In a few months it pretty much disappeared. We understand it is a demanding job keeping up with a web site. We understand your hesitation to talk about more than the internet work of your church. As you say You are getting a lot of harassment. But that should be expected as part of the package of engaging the “world” in the fashion that you are trying to reach out. What we notice is your fervor to expose the “ugly” of Capitalism. That is a rather large undertaking considering your hope in exposing the “ugly” of Capitalism is to show people why the Commons Project makes so much better sense. We pray discernment and wisdom for you as you minister via internet

      We don’t comment on George Bush or other controversies because we find it really hard to obey Jesus when He told us to “love our enemies…Pray for them who despitefully use and abuse…” It is hard for us to keep our hearts abundantly full of Love by speaking hatred and discontent. How can we have Love and Hate in our hearts and still produce “good” fruit? “Out of the abundance of the heart” gives us the impression if we speak spite and bitterness maybe that is all that is in our heart. So we don’t engage. At one point in our lives we believed to be silent meant agreement. We protested loudly and proudly our disagreements. For a few years now we have learned by watching Jesus that many times in HIS silence He was protesting. We enjoy the humble meek way Jesus Christ would get His point across. We are still learning, we falter and we are grateful Jesus is merciful and just to forgive and teach us once again about gentleness and peace. There is a time and place for righteous anger as Christ showed us with the Moneychangers. But the curious thing is HE was able to get angry and sin not. We are still meditating on how to be angry and sin not. We pray Jesus teaches you how to be angry and sin not.

      We sound like we have the doctrines of men coming out of our mouths because we were raised in churches. One doesn’t come away from that without some fruit. We are not above recognizing that. As far as Constantine I, he is dead so it does no good to speak spitefully about a dead misguided liar.

      We did not fully explain to you that we are Anti- Denominational. Not anti people who love and follow Jesus. We are just anti establishment. Our point of view is a work in progress, it takes a while to root out the bad doctrine and allow The Holy Spirit to put in the Good WORD. Basically we believe buildings, liturgy, rituals, organization, administration, and just the everyday workings of denominations detract from the true work of the Holy Spirit. Producing the fruit of love is not something that can be held in one building for one or two days per week. Nor should peace or gentleness be sequestered for the sake of “unity”. For clarity sake Non- Denominational churches ARE a denomination unto them selves. Maybe in the beginning they were not connected to a “denomination”, but that has since changed with time.

      How Jesus ministered to the people can not happen inside some official building or organization. Jesus was a part of the society. He was available to the people.

      When a son was writhing on the ground in the agony of demon possession, Jesus didn’t need to have a conference call from his 4th floor office in Nazareth before He could help. Jesus healed him.

      Jesus met a woman, her son had died. He didn’t ask her to make a grief counseling appointment next Tuesday. Right then, He wept with her, and then he brought her son back to life.

      We laugh to think what would happen if some people began to tear the roof off one of these mega churches trying to get their sick friend inside to be prayed for. “Well Officer we were desperate. Our friend was dying we didn’t have the $55.00 a piece to get in that prayer meeting. But we just knew the presence of the Lord was there so we didn’t think they would mind if we broke in.”

      We are not satisfied with the lukewarm of “Churchianity”. People go to church to just sit there, to be entertained, to look “holy”. So we decided to ask ABBA if we could do this different.

      Do we have to be “churchians”? How can we be more like Jesus? Couldn’t we be face to face with those who need hope, help, friendship, guidance, encouragement and of course LOVE. If we try to do this without JESUS’ Agape Love we are wasting HIS time. We actually believe that is why the goats are rejected. They did not Love Jesus and they did not love humanity. Then there is this group of “do gooders” that Jesus rejects. We believe that even though they did all those things in “Jesus Name”, Jesus rejected them because they did not LOVE as Jesus Loves. They didn’t show the Love of the Heavenly Father. They were not His Children, so He didn’t know who they were.

      In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

      (1Jn 3:10-11)

      We are about to misquote Paul. Please bear with us.

      If a homeless beggar comes up to me on the streets and asks me for change and I look upon him with contempt as I toss him some coins so he will just go away, I did not love him I just gave him some change. He didn’t see Jesus, he was not loved.

      I could do all kinds of wonderful things to help those less fortunate than I. I could build community centers, promote programs, but if I do not love everyone involved, even that annoying project planner that makes me sick because he is “one of those”, I am wasting Jesus’ time.

      Just to do a “good” thing for the purpose of doing a good thing, maybe even someone noticing and patting us on the back is not love. It is just doing a good thing. LOVE on the other hand is bigger than all that. When love is the true motivator for good deeds then people see Jesus. They see God because God is love. They will be loved.

      We want to love Jesus, and we want to love people. We are asking ABBA Father to show us how to do that. We are just not finding enough love in the churches. Yes, people are doing good things, and YES there are some in there who do LOVE with Jesus’ Love. But we want out. We believe other Followers and Lover’s of Jesus want out as well. What do we do? We want to find a place so the Lovers of Jesus can do the work they KNOW the Holy Spirit is calling them to do. American Churchianity is killing us. We are Sardis, we are Laodecia. So we humbly have been praying for an answer. We are calling out to Jesus to rescue us from this snare. We believe we have found it. At this point we are just calling it “house” fellowship because that is all it is. That is what it is called in other countries. A group of believer’s sharing the Word of God allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the teaching and ministering. We prayed and this vision came to us. Within the house fellowship no tithes or offerings are taken. There are no administrative costs so no need for weekly collections. Families within the fellowship have needs and the others bring whatever support is provided by Yahweh. It may be goods such as: food, clothes, furniture, and so on. It may be cash. It may just be time, prayer and a shoulder for comfort. But whatever the Holy Spirit leads, HIS WILL be done. The Fellowship is not lead by a single leader, but are elder-lead as was done in the Acts church. Keeping small, and planting other house fellowships as the original grows in size. Our vision is for these fellowships to be dedicated to houses. No plans for expanding into larger buildings ever, they will remain house fellowships. This is just our frame work. It will grow as the Holy Spirit leads. The Holy Spirit will call the ministers, the anointing of the gifts, the power to heal by laying on of hands, the power to cast out demons, the power to raise up folks from the dead, either spiritually or by teaching them about being born again, or maybe actually physically raising them up from the dead. All of this includes the DAILY ministering of feeding and clothing the poor, caring for the widows and orphans as the Holy Spirit directs and provides for. Everything Jesus did, we want to do. We PRAY, PRAY, PRAY, all will be done according to God’s Will. Currently we are reaching out to the homeless. We are praying the Holy Spirit will lead our steps as we open up our home for fellowship. Please pray for us as we proceed. See we need “people” too.

      It is interesting how all 3 of us have been searching for the same thing. We believe it is possible, since all things are possible with God, to grow both ministries.

      We do not know what you think but we feel we have been having fellowship with you, Tom. By discussing the WORD of God, and sharing the FACE of Jesus that we each see, the FACE we each have come to love and adore. We wondered why Jesus wanted us to see your site. We had a lot of ideas, but recently it has been revealed. You have challenged us to really reach farther with our hearts to explore and grasp the sharing and giving ministry of Jesus Christ.

      We are not in agreement that the Commons Project is going to heal the planet. Our goal for the house fellowship dose not include healing the planet. We believe John wrote the truth in Revelation. We do not find scripture to support the Commons as you describe it will overthrow globally the hardheartedness of the world.Revelation contradicts that idea.

      We are planning on and looking anxiously forward to Jesus’ return and taking us to the Eternal Mansion He is preparing for us. We are not convinced we are to build that mansion for ourselves. But we are convinced to give the message that we are all created in the Image of the Creator of Heaven and Earth. A central theme of that image, we feel the true glory of that image is LOVE. God created us to love HIM and one another. Adam and Eve loved their curiosity more than The Creator. They disobeyed HIM. And thus knowing good and evil has made it so very hard on each of us to Choose Love all the time. But this was not the end all be all for relationship between the Creator and the created. Jesus Christ the son of God, who is the epitome of Loving the Heavenly Father and loving His brothers/sisters shows us how to choose Love all the time. His message is about Love. His message is all about Love. Not human temporary or self serving Love but THE LOVE of the Heavenly Father. His Agape Love can only be written in our hearts by the invisible hand of the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ behavior is Love. His instruction is Love. His provision is Love. He is Love, and He asked His Followers once again to obey 2 commandments, on which all the rest hang “Love Me, and love each other. And then He died and rose from the dead on the 3rd day for us because this situation is more than flesh and blood it was spiritual. The situation has a contender that is spiritual. And in order for the fulfillment of all things the Holy Spirit needed to be dispatched to seal the true Follower’s and Believers for the day of redemption. Jesus knew the contender would try very ferociously to steal HIS children from HIS Hand. But We can not be pluck from HIS Hand when the Holy Spirit seals us. Even in physical death we can not be plucked from Jesus hand.

      Once that beastly mark arrives and the image that must be worshipped is installed, we will see prophecy being fulfilled and it will all make sense. The world will see then who are the Lover’s of Jesus and who are the lovers of evil. We are not going to heal the Earth or her inhabitants becasue some will CHOOSE not to be healed.

      Some will choose to believe lies.

      Many will say in that day Lord Lord…..” But Jesus will not take them to Heavenly mansions. He will not take them to the marriage supper of the Lamb. He will only take the Children of God, the Children of Light, the Children of Love because Jehovah is serious about the choice He has commanded us to make. Choose you this day evil or good. Choose death or Choose life. Choose curses or choose blessing. Who will you serve the Creator of Heaven and Earth or yourself? Even Jesus says don’t be lukewarm, just choose. People need to know He is coming back quickly.

      The world is suffering because those who say they know Jesus don’t know how to choose LOVE. They can not SHOW Love. This does not give a good contrast for people to choose between. If the so called “good’ people look so evil, and evil doesn’t look quite so evil. There is no contrast, and with out the contrast how can we see the choice?

      We believe Heavenly Father is still showing contrasts so we can know how to choose the good and reject the evil. How to Choose HIM which is Eternal Life and healing.

      We believe your work is part of that contrast, and we are happy to be co-laborers in Christ in showing contrasts as well.

      We appreciate the time it took for you to read all this. We do not want to be competitors, or enemies. We really are part of the same Fellowship of the Heavenly Father, Jesus the only Begotten son, and the Holy Spirit as all three bear witness as the ONLY Creator of Heaven & Earth.

      May the exceedingly abundant love and riches of Christ Jesus be yours now and Eternally,

      Quazi and Saijah

    • Hello Quazi & Saijah,

      This post addresses some of your comments. I would have done a more personal reply, but I have several projects in the works. I trust you understand.

      Christian Commons, Eternal and Universal: Kingdom of God

      God bless all.