WHEN GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM IS CHRISTIAN CHARITY: PART 2

From the comment section of the post: "PETER PACE AND WILLIAM FALLON VERSUS DAVID PETRAEUS AND THE NEOCONS VERSUS JESUS CHRIST."

Hello Brian,

No, I didn't misunderstand about your saying you "have no problem with voluntary socialism, only socialism enforced by a government gun." Do you also believe that capitalism shouldn't be enforced by a government gun? I hope so for the sake of your soul. If you do believe that, you're in a rare minority amongst self-described capitalists.

I have read about capitalism from the objectivist, libertarian, and anarcho slants. I've read about it from Smith's and Ricardo's perspective and the perspective of yet others. As for assuming "a strange selfish motive on the part of capitalists," most of the people who have come here in defense of capitalism have had no problem with admitting that it is based upon selfishness. Most defend selfishness. Here you are claiming capitalism isn't based upon selfishness.

Capitalism isn't the spirit of Christian giving. It isn't something Jesus called his followers to either teach or do with their souls. Capitalism is trade. Capitalist traders hold out for recompense and private profit. It isn't good, unlike the voluntary giving-and-sharing economy envisioned and practiced by Jesus and his closest followers. If you claim to be a Christian while arguing that so-called free-market capitalism is better than what the first disciples actually did or that we should follow laissez faire capitalism rather than what the first Apostles and Christ did between and among each other, you're not being a true believer.

Oh, capitalism is spiritual and so is socialism whether or not capitalists or socialists know it. The question is which spirit and concerning which version of socialism. Capitalism is no doubt from Satan. Capitalism is lording it over others. It is not washing their feet. The capitalist is not the last who shall be first. He is the first who shall not remain so.

Christians are to be family. Family is not to charge members to come to the table. All are to help the family without charge to the best of his or her gifts and abilities. That's basic. Capitalism, per se, doesn't do that or advocate that at all.

Capitalism, being based upon getting for self first and foremost, leads in the direction of raping the land and other people. It is acquisitive. It accumulates and often hoards. It promotes excess and harm. That's its spirit. It also arms and equips and pays armies to coerce others into opening up to that system. There is no freedom in it.

Capitalists have done all manner of evils for the sake of devouring for self that is apart from God — astray.

As for socialism, you are still using it as synonymous with Marxism, which it is not. There is real socialism that is synonymous with Christianity. There is no way to be non-violent and non-coercive and believe in the kind and degree of giving and sharing desired by Jesus and not be a Christian. It takes the love and peace of Jesus to achieve that kind and degree of sharing he shares with God and his friends (real friends) who love what he taught and did that was not capitalism in the least. He cleans the Temple of capitalists.

As for preconceived ideas, the ideas are Jesus's. I used to fall for the serpent somewhat about capitalism. I outgrew that. I couldn't fall back into that error if I tried. I don't need to see which is true. I already know. I know what Jesus said and I know he was and remains right.

Let me ask you, before you left your comments here, how much reading did you do on this site? Did you read "ABOUT OUR NAME: REAL LIBERAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH" and "ARTICLE ON: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CONSERVATIVE-REPUBLICAN CHRISTIAN: JESUS IS A SMALL-C COMMUNIST" and at least "EXCERPTS ON SMALL-C COMMUNISM"? I don't think you have. Yet you're asking me to read even more redundant capitalist dogma from Hell. You won't find the above articles anywhere else on the Internet unless they are cited duplicates or un-cited plagiarisms. Before you continue debating with me, I suggest you stack up your position against what I've already written that you have never seen before in any version. You can also look at the category: Libertarian Capitalism: False Shepherds. It's not up to date, but it covers plenty.

Some of my more recent posts ought to enlighten you as to whether or not your arguments will stand up. They won't. Your first premise is wrong.

WHY DO CAPITALISTS USE ECONOMIC SANCTIONS, IF ALL SOCIALIST STATES INHERENTLY FAIL?

REFUTING CAPITALIST BIG LIES

ABUNDANCE, ALAN GREENSPAN, ANARCHO-CAPITALISM, AYN RAND, JESUS CHRIST, LAISSEZ-FAIRE, LEONARD PEIKOFF, LIBERTARIANISM, LIBERTY, MILTON FRIEDMAN, MONOPOLIES, OBJECTIVISM, PEACE, PLUTOCRACY, PONZI SCHEMES, SECURITY, SELF, AND THE STATE

WHAT LAISSEZ FAIRE CAPITALISTS HAVE DONE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY JUST FOR STARTERS

Be sure to read the comments on that last one.

After that, if you think you have something to add that hasn't already been refuted, I'll engage you.

Capitalism is not, never has been, and never will be part of the revelation of Jesus Christ. If you think it is, you're deceiving yourself and any who believe you about it.

You say you're not a Mormon. Why are you part of a Mormon Blog ring? That's very misleading.

You said, "You might call me a Liberal Christian." No, I wouldn't. You don't fit the definition of a real liberal Christian. You line up with the capitalists and all they bring forth that is always a net loss both materially and spiritually. It leads to death of the soul. Satan is a capitalist. He's also a coercive socialists (false socialist). Those who are "best" at capitalism fund the wars. They do the most to addict others to drugs. They do the most illegal weapons deals. They do the most to traffic in human and child sex slavery. They do the most money laundering for the largest other crooks in the world. They have monopolized the currency. They are the ones to whom much of the interest on the national debt is paid. They are the ones whose private central bank accounts are never audited by the U.S. government or IRS. They own the military-industrial complex and send their war machine out into the world to take what they want and the locals be damned. They are the ones who pay for the CIA and others to undermine democracies, even as they claim to be for the people choosing in what they call free and fair elections.

That's the spirit of capitalism regardless of what Ayn Rand or others including you say to try to claim the tree doesn't bring forth such fruit by which we know the tree. Argue against that if you can! It's straight from Jesus. I suggest you rather turn away from defending that tree and its wicked fruit and turn to real Christianity that is of, by, and for the people giving and sharing and not for holding out for recompense in the form of money, their contrived (wholly manmade) medium of exchange.

You wrote, "There are some comments on my blog, but I usually delete comments that are negative and seem closed-minded." You don't let your readers and visitors be the judge of those things. You give them only what you want them to see, and you conceal points-of-view that differ from yours, such as mine. I'm not calling for you to allow anyone to say just anything he wants to on your blog. Spammers (who are evil) would render sites un-usable regardless of the quality of the site's message.

There are many other things I could say here about capitalism to show how it is not and can never be Christian. I'd just be repeating most of what I've already written. It is wiser simply to steer others to what's already there than it is to spend huge numbers of hours rewriting it all for each commentator.

Again, may God bless you, Brian, with the truth.

Tom Usher

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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