I added the following comment here. Their system over there didn't retain my paragraphing and didn't accept HTML link tags. It left the links in raw code instead. It took about ten minutes before the comment showed. When it did, it showed up twice each with a different time stamp. I only submitted once. Oh well, it's a relatively new system. Now I see that my comment is repeated three times.
Hello Ike, Joy, and All,
Joy writes, "I know this government was founded on Christian principles." That's untrue. The government of the United States was not founded on Christian principles. It was not founded on the New Commandment. It was not founded on the Golden Rule, as Jesus defined it and applied it. It was not founded upon pacifism or giving and sharing all. It was not founded on non-coercion. It was founded on violent revolution. It was founded on private property. It was founded primarily by Deists, who were far from being Christians.
Joy is though absolutely correct that we are called "to a form of voluntary socialism in their [our] lives." Jesus is a communist. That is the state under which we are to live. That's what the Christian Commons Project is about.
Joy says, "For a hands-off government to produce a good country, people have to be willing to engage in a level of voluntary socialism in order to provide for the poor." Well, the teaching of Jesus goes much further all the way to Heaven on Earth. We are to be as Jesus asks, which is to be as the least (even be the least, the last), the servant of each other and of the unified whole that is the Church. In the vision Jesus gives us, there is no one with greater wealth in money or material possession. That's because everyone shares. Everyone is one, just as God and Jesus are one and as Jesus says we are to be also with them. There is no private, sole ownership in the sense the capitalists view those concepts. In real Christianity, people have what they need, and no one wants more than that. There is no excess.
Ike, you write, "Many boast that Jesus was a communist. And in a way, He was. But He also did not have a human nature."
Where did you get that false teaching? Jesus is 100% human. He has a human nature. He's my brother. If he isn't human, then neither am I. I assure you, I'm human.
Jesus is the Son of man. Don't you believe that? I do. Do you exclude yourself from being a child of God? I don't exclude myself. Are you concerned about overstepping? Well, I'm not looking to usurp Jesus. I don't surpass the Master. He will though share all with those who will share all. That's the nature of the oneness that is written of in the Gospel of John.
Why do you use the term "boast"? If you are directing that to the coercive Marxists, then I understand and take your point. For Christians though, there is no glorifying oneself apart from God. One is glorified only as Jesus was glorified by being one with God. You also qualify your statement by saying "in a way, He was." This qualification admits to there being some other truth. He wasn't a communist in a way. He was a communist, period. His communism is the only real. Marx fell short, very far short. Marxism is falsehood. Jesus's communism is the real. His place is perfection. He doesn't lead to something less. If one doesn't reach it, one isn't with him.
Ike, you also say, "...nor did He once command government to give to the poor." Not so. He commanded all to do so. Caesar, however, was deaf to the Holy Spirit. He didn't hear Jesus's voice as speaking the only truth. He made of himself other than of the fold. He chose wrong. The commandments that come out from Jesus's heart though remain the highest law: The divine law. No entity is exempt, not even Satan. Satan is just rebellious against the truth of what is best and possible. The Kingdom of God, Heaven, is governed by this knowledge.
You, as one who professes Christianity, must pray the Lord's Prayer. You must have prayed for the Kingdom to come to the here and now. Do you pray one thing but believe it can't happen? Do you ask for that government, that state of affairs, but say that it is against your nature and that you are therefore incapable? How then have you been changed at the root? How is your tree going to be all good to bring forth only good fruit and not any rotten?
Of course "He commanded the individual to give to the poor and to be voluntarily socialist with our funds and abilities."
Why do you support a government or state that doesn't support doing what Jesus commands? I don't. I support only that government that is consistent with the direction Jesus sets. Otherwise, it's hypocrisy.
What you are doing is confusing secular Socialism with the very real human nature of the human beings Jesus calls to be communists. There is not a "round peg of human nature" that Jesus is calling to be put in a "square hole."
If human beings aren't capable of turning, repenting, atoning, overcoming, and following the path of Jesus, then Jesus was wasting his time. If it is all beyond human nature, then no one goes into Heaven or ever has.
What you call human nature is not immutable. It is a choice to be chosen. You are setting up emotional, mental, and physical stumbling blocks for souls.
Let me know what you think. Please add your comments to my posts.
The following should appear at the end of every post:
According to the IRS, "Know the law: Avoid political campaign intervention":
Tax-exempt section 501(c)(3) organizations like churches, universities, and hospitals must follow the law regarding political campaigns. Unfortunately, some don't know the law.
Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from participating in any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. The prohibition applies to campaigns at the federal, state and local level.
Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes. Section 501(c)(3) private foundations are subject to additional restrictions.
Political Campaign Intervention
Political campaign intervention includes any activities that favor or oppose one or more candidates for public office. The prohibition extends beyond candidate endorsements.
Contributions to political campaign funds, public statements of support or opposition (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of an organization, and the distribution of materials prepared by others that support or oppose any candidate for public office all violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention.
Factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:
- Whether the statement identifies one or more candidates for a given public office
- Whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval of one or more candidates' positions and/or actions
- Whether the statement is delivered close in time to the election
- Whether the statement makes reference to voting or an election
- Whether the issue addressed distinguishes candidates for a given office
Many religious organizations believe, as we do, that the above constitutes a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That said, we make the following absolutely clear here:
- The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project not only do not endorse any candidate for any secular office, we say that Christianity forbids voting in such elections.
- Furthermore, when we discuss any public-office holder's position, policy, action or inaction, we definitely are not encouraging anyone to vote for that office holder's position.
- We are not trying to influence secular elections but rather want people to come out from that entire fallen system.
- When we analyze or discuss what is termed "public policy," we do it entirely from a theological standpoint with an eye to educating professing Christians and those to whom we are openly always proselytizing to convert to authentic Christianity.
- It is impossible for us to fully evangelize and proselytize without directly discussing the pros and cons of public policy and the positions of secular-office holders, hence the unconstitutionality of the IRS code on the matter.
- We are not rich and wouldn't be looking for a fight regardless. What we cannot do is compromise our faith (which seeks to harm nobody, quite the contrary).
- We render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. We render unto God what is God's.
- When Caesar says to us that unless we shut up about the unrighteousness of Caesar's policies and practices, we will lose the ability of people who donate to us to declare their donations as deductions on their federal and state income-tax returns, we say to Caesar that we cannot shut up while exercising our religion in a very reasonable way.
- We consider the IRS code on this matter as deliberate economic duress (a form of coercion) and a direct attempt by the federal government to censor dissenting, free political and religious speech.
- It's not freedom of religion if they tax it.
And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (Matthew 17:24-26)