What are the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project? They are everything I've written on this site but devoid of the spirit. The Zeitgeist Movement even includes the tagline: "The means is the end." Where I've written the following:

Zeitgeist means "time spirit." It's German. It is to be taken as "the spirit of the times." One, Peter Joseph has worked up two videos as follows:

  1. Zeitgeist, the Movie (video on Google)
    Zeitgeist, the Movie (article on Wikipedia)
  2. Zeitgeist: Addendum (video on Google)

to appeal first to 9-11 Truthers (The New York Times according to the Wikipedia says, "Mr. Joseph said he has recently 'moved away from.'") but to build from a base of atheist and converts to atheism. In a nut shell, Peter holds forth with the following:

  1. The unity/oneness is on account of the material connections, not spiritual.
  2. Technology is salvation.

This is Nimrodian humanism minus any acknowledgment that the secular humanists are shaking their fists at God.

Peter Joseph is joined by Jacque Fresco of the Venus Project. Although, we will not assign all of Peter Joseph's philosophy to anyone else we have not heard or seen accept it. Fresco certainly might not subscribe to certain of the aspects of Joseph's philosophy.

It is scientism, meaning it elevates science to the one and only religion and philosophy worthy of upholding.

Adherents use the fact that there is an underlying global prophecy in much of the world's mythology in an attempt to discredit Jesus as an actual historical person.

I've read before about how they assign garbage analogous information to Jesus. I was planning to go out searching for some for my readers' sakes, but even the skeptics made that so easy that it was right there linked from the Wikipedia article.

First of all, he says that the Egyptian god Horus was adored by three kings, had twelve disciples and was crucified. He says much the same thing about Mithra, as well as noting that Krishna was born on December 25. Almost none of this is true. (Source: "The Greatest Story Ever Garbled," by Tim Callahan. eSkeptic. February 25, 2009.)

It's a read. It tried to dig a little deeper so as to avoid jumping to conclusions. Don't buy it all though. It helps to show that deeper digging is required to get at the root causes. In fact, there are astrological connections in the Bible. The Magi referred to by Tim Callahan in his article were astrologers. They just aren't the only thing going on, contrary to Peter Joseph's assertions.

Here's an interesting video:

Some of the secular humanists refuse to take the Gospels as an actual historical account (to any degree). However, the enemies of Jesus's message suppressed Jesus's message.

What do these humanists expect happened? Do they actually believe that the mainstream source of that day would have done unbiased journalism? They openly say right now that the mainstream media (MSM) owned and operated by the plutocrats refuses to publish that which would bring it down.

Furthermore, look at how many characters in history who are taken as having been actual persons are only cited a few times or even only once. More importantly, look at the historical record/language that more than suggests that persons and peoples were erased from the record.

It was not lost on the worldly empires of those times that those who control what is written as history write the future as well. Orwell stated it well. "Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past."

Emperors pulled down the statues of those who preceded them. They struck the names from wherever they had been etched and otherwise recorded. They then built huge edifices that they assumed would not be leveled — not easily erased after their deaths.

To think that the powers that be at the time of Jesus would not have worked to suppress and eliminate Jesus's words and the record of his deeds is asking of us to be rather dimwitted to say the least.

The powers that be didn't want Jesus's message. They hated what is recorded as having been said by Jesus. Jesus's real message serves absolutely nothing those powers wanted then or want now in their confusion and hypocrisy. They persecuted the early Christians and continued persecuting thereafter any who dared to return to the original message.

Is that fact also now disputed by the secular humanists?

Therefore, once it became apparent that initial efforts to eradicate the message had failed, the powers (wholly self-centered, plutocrat, mostly closeted secular-humanists) went to great lengths to co-opt the Christian Movement and to usurp Christian leadership positions. We had the Roman Emperor Constantine I do this and the Roman Catholic religion spring up as a result where the Pope actually became Caesar for all intents and purposes. It was not Christianity and still is not, yet Peter Joseph and his ilk would mislead you into falsely believing that the Jesus Movement was devised to further the system of mammon. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you believe Peter Joseph, you believe the satanic spirit, by definition. That's a fact.

Now, why would those worldly imperialists (Constantine and his yes men, brownnosing clergy) have gone to such lengths if Jesus's message was devised as their tool in the first place, as suggested by the secular humanists? Think about that. Consider how Peter Joseph jumped to conclusions or conveniently sidestepped what refutes the thrust of his whole direction (Godlessness).

He takes the fact that Christianity has been subverted by the plutocrats and rather falsely concludes that therefore it was devised as a means to oppress and suppress when Jesus's actual message is the greatest fear of those plutocrats. Such a move is not indicative of a bright mind, is it? Peter may use light in his videos, but he's shedding half-truths that is really leading into darkness those who can't see it and who buy into Peter's garbage.

  • It is Jesus who terms money "unrighteous": "The unrighteous mammon."
  • It is Jesus who prophesies against those rich in that mammon.
  • It is Jesus who makes clear that the world cannot serve both righteousness (the very spirit that is God) and also serve the system of mammon.

In the face of those facts, Peter Joseph and his Venus Project, comes along suggesting that Jesus is a hindrance to bringing forth the mammonless society. What a transparent error that is!

Let me get right to it. I don't know the people behind this Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project, but I know them only too well. Here's what I know. If anyone cares to dig deeper, passed the facade that is the Zeitgeist videos, one will find that these people all want to be licensed (self-authorized) to do things that Jesus stated are wrong and ought not to be done. Go ahead. Put it to them. Out them. We are to expose evil intentions for what they are.

What the Zeitgeist videos are, is an attempt to ride on the backs of the works of others while conveniently but wholly transparently (in spite of the secular humanists' false hopes that it won't be seen) deliberately leaving out the root motivation. This is the wolf in sheep's clothing. That's what Peter Joseph is, as are the people of the Venus Project.

  • They take base iniquity
  • They will not openly denounce
  • Avoid the subject
  • Dance around if confronted
  • Haven't figured out a way to defend it with any logical consistency
  • Wrap it up in spiritual terminology
  • Strip it of spiritual meaning

They use the term "love" and advocate against greed, selfishness, and violence all the while avoiding the issue of sexual harm, which harmful desire is simply another manifestation of the very selfishness these secular humanists claim to decry. Mark my words. This will all come out more and more. There will be some exceptions, but none will be consistent.

These people deny spirit over matter, yet their own science has documented that spiritual connectedness has resulted in healing in ways that does not otherwise occur. They try to reduce this to Darwinian mechanisms only. Oh, the matter behaves a certain way because thinking a certain way has resulted in survival. Interesting isn't it that thinking about God results in that level of survival. Oh, how that opens the door (strait gate) the secularists want to remain shut for they can't enter.

This Zeitgeist Movement is a trick by the trickster from the beginning. It is a distraction from the real, right path. Denying credit to God (who has been sorely misrepresented by those now termed religionists and empires and also secular humanists) is fundamentally wrong. It lies at the heart of everything that is wrong. No amount of human-devised material technology will overcome this basic principle, ever!

Jesus speaks of God being one and many. He speaks of loving neighbor as self and more so, as Jesus loved is closest friends. It is that later part that, the New Commandment, is conveniently left out by the secularists who seek to give credit to those who formulated other iterations of the Golden Rule before Jesus walked the Earth in the flesh as man, to which Golden Rule Jesus calls people that they might avoid hypocrisy.

It is hypocrisy that you will find as the root of this Zeitgeist Movement. Peter Joseph has failed properly to define his terms and has left himself wide open to hypocrisy.

He is saying that we are the divine, if we will, while at the same time and in the same videos that he created, says there is no Theo (God). He thinks of God as other while the wholeness of spirit is one, as Jesus teaches. He doesn't grasp the terms.

In so many words, he says Jesus's message was not divine, not from God; yet, he, Peter, borrows wholesale from Christ's message but doing what all the usurpers and distorters have always done that is strip out those things that make the message finally whole.

Peter Joseph and those of the Venus Project are locked within the self-limiting box of the misnomered "scientific method." Testing the spirit precludes it. Jesus makes that exceedingly clear. Peter and the Venus Project want company. They want the whole of humanity stuck right there with them so for a time for the sakes of their egos they may be self-licensed to iniquity. This is exactly that against which Jesus warns in no uncertain terms.

If you want to fall for the lie that there is no spirit I know for a fact exists, go ahead. Be separated out from the real just and righteous who know what real love really is. That's the plan.

The Peter Joseph's won't be there in the Real New Heaven and Earth. I promise you that. As to where they will be, God's house has many mansions. They will be living under their own standard for as long as the system of existence has determined is perfectly befitting. Meanwhile, the more truly enlightened will rise in the proverbial sense. The pure will see God.

Peter Joseph doesn't see God, he wants you to believe; however, the truth is that he hates God and seeks to dethrone God because God tells Peter and everyone Peter wants to follow Peter that what Peter wants and does isn't good and that it leads to negative consequences.

  • Don't follow Peter Joseph.
  • Don't join the Venus Project.
  • Don't support the Zeitgeist Movement.
  • Rather, support this, the Christian Commons Project and the movement of the Holy Spirit of whole truth. It is revealed and not from testing.

People such as Peter Joseph are sent to deceive. They fall right into the hands of the mainstream media. Consequently, everyone who knows that 9-11 was deliberately covered up is painted with the same brush. Don't fall for it. The question is not whether or not 9-11 was an inside job. The question is only a matter of just how inside was it. There is no doubt that it was an inside job. Officials working officially as U.S. government conspired to cause 9-11 to happen. The powers that be benefited. They are part of the cover-up, just as the Gulf of Tonkin resolution that authorized the Vietnam War was based upon total fabrication by the U.S. government at the highest level: The Presidency. It's a fact! There are many, many other facts that aren't stupid (contrary to Ronald Reagan's complaint) unless they aren't pieced together to show the big picture.

Just because Peter Joseph or anyone else gets half of everything wrong doesn't mean that the other half isn't the truth. He's backed away from the 9-11 Truth Movement because holding to it kept doors to false prosperity closed to him. I, on the other hand, don't throw away the truth simply because there are those who hold with 9-11 Truth while also holding with crap. Wisdom is justified of her children, and Jesus brought forth what he did starting with God's Holy Spirit. Then he went and was given disciples.

Real Love and Peace,

Tom Usher


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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That said, we make the following absolutely clear here:

  • The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project not only do not endorse any candidate for any secular office, we say that Christianity forbids voting in such elections.
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  • We are not trying to influence secular elections but rather want people to come out from that entire fallen system.
  • When we analyze or discuss what is termed "public policy," we do it entirely from a theological standpoint with an eye to educating professing Christians and those to whom we are openly always proselytizing to convert to authentic Christianity.
  • It is impossible for us to fully evangelize and proselytize without directly discussing the pros and cons of public policy and the positions of secular-office holders, hence the unconstitutionality of the IRS code on the matter.
  • We are not rich and wouldn't be looking for a fight regardless. What we cannot do is compromise our faith (which seeks to harm nobody, quite the contrary).
  • We render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. We render unto God what is God's.
  • When Caesar says to us that unless we shut up about the unrighteousness of Caesar's policies and practices, we will lose the ability of people who donate to us to declare their donations as deductions on their federal and state income-tax returns, we say to Caesar that we cannot shut up while exercising our religion in a very reasonable way.
  • We consider the IRS code on this matter as deliberate economic duress (a form of coercion) and a direct attempt by the federal government to censor dissenting, free political and religious speech.
  • It's not freedom of religion if they tax it.

And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (Matthew 17:24-26)

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • Thomas James

      It is interesting that you mention Nimrod because that makes it clear that if technology can be our salvation it can just as well be our damnation.

      Take nuclear fusion power for instance which is advocated by the Venus project as a clean and infinite source of free power that will last a million years and will be the Earth's salvation because it will solve the problem of global warming and will produce no nuclear waste. This may be very well and good however nuclear fusion also happens to be how hydrogen bombs work with the capability to destroy life as we know it on earth.

      The Venus project also advocates advanced robotic technology which no doubt it claims as a salvation for the disabled because it will allow the blind to see and the lame to walk however this same technology will be used to produce killer robots so that so that anyone who sits at a computer terminal will be able to kill without putting himself in harms way. Therefore unpopular wars like the Vietnam War will become more acceptable because there will no longer be any risk involved.

      The list goes on and on and it is no wonder that Nimrod was stopped dead in his tracks with the confusion of different languages before he was able to discover the technolgy to blow up the Earth.

      Of course one could argue that an advanced civillization will deploy all of the technology advocated by the Venus Project but such a civilization would have to have a much higher moral standard than what is allowed under Old Testament Torah Judaism namely that war is made obsolete and replaced with pacifism which includes an end to all forms of violence hatred and anger.

      • Well, Thomas,

        The Venus Project claims and not without basis that the system of mammon being selfish is root error. The Christian Commons Project is based upon the same point (but more; infinitely more) — was so since Jesus walk the Earth and before — The Commons having no beginning or end but rather being eternally right.

        The problem with the Venus Project is it's preclusion of anything metaphysical and anything coming out from other than testing. Nothing can come by way of belief in God under the Venus Project. Jesus could not feed them as part of the five thousand because they have no faith in God's power, willingness, or even desire, love, and limitless compassion.

        The Christian Commons is not Luddite. Technology is not disallowed by Jesus Christ. Ultimately, it isn't necessary. What matters though most is the spirit from which the technology arises. The technology of purely organic, bountiful, exquisitely balanced (thoughtful, caring) agriculture brought forth solely from the spirit of giving to those without is inherently righteous technology. God and Jesus will never say otherwise.

        Jesus though needed no doctor's bag to make the blind see, the deaf hear, the paralyzed walk, and the infected pure, all instantly. There is no disease Jesus cannot ask God to remove that God will not or cannot remove instantly. It's a fact, not myth.


        P.S. Thomas, please leave a reply without logging in first and then let me know via email how the system handled it, will you. Thanks.

    • Thomas James

      As far a Jesus not needing modern medicine to heal the sick this was of course true however Jesus needed people to believe in him otherwise his medicine would not work. Jesus encountered problems in his hometown because nobody believed that a son of a carpenter could perform miracles and as a result very few people were healed.

      Unfortunately we have a problem that neither Jesus nor his apostles are on this earth and that the level of peoples faith may make not be suficient enough to allow such miracle healings. If this were not the case we would have seen Mother Teresa perform miracle healings who in spite of her belonging to an inferior Roman Catholic could have been very close to God.

      So I think that it would not be wrong for a Christian to turn to science so that the blind could see and the lame could walk but what science really is is just the ability to use your mind to solve technological problems. Since God designed the mind does not God get the glory? And of course a lot of people have faith in science but of course any new invention produces ridicule as well.

      So what I have proposed is to take the most advanced Humanoid Robotic technology which is already being developed by NASA and the Department of Defense thanks to a designer called Mark Rosheim who is the modern day equivalent of Leonardo Divinci and to adapt this technology as an advanced motorized orthotic or prothesis or exoskeleton.

      Of course the technology is so complicated that it is almost beyond understanding.

      • "...does not God get the glory?"

        Got should be credited, but is not credited by the secular-humanists of scientism or otherwise.

        We are to be the apostles. We are to have the faith.

        Mother Teresa was not close in the sense you intend. She lauded the Duvaliers, the brutal dictators of Haiti, for instance. I take your point though that the lack of general faith retards the healing. As you know, I've stated that here on this website in no uncertain terms. You agree with me about it. I know that. It's right here for all to see.

        The problem with the science of the secularists is that it is a woefully inferior, self-limiting substitute for truth. Putting faith in it is spiritual death.

        If we bring forth the Christian Commons, the healing will occur. I don't mean bring it forth as a tiny fraction of the whole world but the whole of it. I also do mean that the unclean spirits/demons will be removed completely to the point that there will be no death of the flesh. They do exist as such regardless of names self-styled scientists give them.

        The spirit necessary to bring forth the Commons everywhere is definitely not the spirit of the Venus Project or any technologically based effort. The Venus Project and such put technological answers first and foremost, completely devoid of the spirit of Christ.

        The Commons ultimately is a 100% spiritual construct. Getting there is never by putting the non-spiritual first, contrary to the Venus Project and other such techno-utopian (nowhere) visions.

        Jesus did not leave the Earth via some ecclesiastical launching pad. He left under spiritual power only. There was no human technology involved.

        People want to envision God as a highly advanced techno-man. They call God the Creator. They call him the Architect. He is those things but only within correctly defined semantical terms. The contexts and connotations therefore must be understood.

        God is always. Techno-man was not. Techno-man is the Demiurge at best: Satan. God is Yah. Yah is not techno-man, the Demiurge, or Satan. Yah is as Jesus said. Jesus did no evil that anyone can point to.

        Now, technology apart from God is for the mundane. It is limited to the mundane. It is not divine. It will not result in the divine. Digging about the fruit tree and dunging it organically, non-toxically, is technology within a context. The whole vineyard of God encompasses Satan's constructs even though those constructs stand apart. Satan hates this and seeks to break out but can never.

        We will farm.

        Peace to the Purists: The Just of the Resurrection.

        The pure shall see God. Aim high.

        Tom Usher

        P.S. Add your URL, and you're a commentator approved in real-time.

        • Let me add that transhumanism is not the way.

          Also, Leonardo da Vinci was a homosexual, was he not? Leonardo da Vinci hated Christ. He was a weapons designer. He's dead and in Hell. Think about it.

          Consider the spirit that is the lust of the flesh that has manifested all the selfishness, all the greed, all the violence, and all the sexual harm that has ruined everything. It is death.

          We need to separate ourselves, our souls, from it and gather together in the real spirit that is the only real life.

          At the same time, we must brave going into the center of the worldly world to sound the alarm for the sake of each soul no matter how far off the end of the age and the coming of the wrath. Each soul matters as if there were no other. However, we don't fetch those who refuse to come along. They are cutoff of their own making. It is not our fault.

    • Dear Tom Usher,

      It is Divine Truth that we are 'Divine Beings here to have a human experience.' Religion in general and Christianity in particulure teaches that we are human beings here to have a Divine experience. In the case of Christianity, we need a savior, Jesus, to do this because we are sinful and unworthy in 'Gods' eyes. This sinful state, for which a savior Jesus was needed, happened not in the first chapter of Genisus, where God said all creation is completely perfect unto itself, "and it was very good. And there came to be evening"-the night/darkness-"and there came to be morning" - the day/light - "a sixth day..." Moses, writing the second chapter of Genisus, tells a different story, in which man was created alone without a mate... hence the Adam and Eve "story" of sinfulness.

      It is this allegory of Moses and his own fall from grace with Egypt, on which the whole of Christianity bases its very foundation, talking snake and all. Moses' "Divinely inspired parable" was of his recalled history in Egypt, his realization of his own guilt and his taking matters into his own hands. It was his ego and not his sticking with his Divine commission of becoming Pharoh and then releasing his people Isreal to form 'there one nation under God.' This mistaken choice is what the message from Holy Spirit inspired Moses to write in the second chapter of Genesis. It was NOT the literal interpration Christianity teaches as truth. The fault you're finding with the Zeitgeist Movement and it's Venus Project is judgmental. The Zeitgeist Movement is simply connecting various mythologies with the Genesis II story.

      "Do not be so quick to accuse that it is they who are telling the lie and not you."

      "Love calls forth all that needs to be healed, and it never fails."

      "Seek the truth. The truth shall set you free."

      Best Regards, Love & Peace, Jack

      • Hello Jack Alexander,

        Please define "judgmental."


        Tom Usher

    • Thomas James

      Recently I read a newspaper article about the demise of a robotic wheelchair called the Ibot which got me thinking again about the subject.

      First of all I would like to say that although faith healing is the infinetely superior form of healing and that there is of course not yet nor will there likely ever be any technological invention that can make a lame person whole I would also like to say that not everyone is a good candidate for faith healing. You see it is very likely that a person who suffered paralysis from an automobile accident would in fact be very angry with God and would think that God is very cruel and unjust for allowing such a condition. Unless you are in that persons shoe's it would be very difficult to judge such a person for such negative feelings.

      When I was involved with working with wheelchairs back in 1994 robotic technology was very experimental and was pretty much a pipe dream. However with todays robotic technology paralyzed people are saying that they no longer feel paralyzed. Of course this is an illusion because in reality they are still paralyzed however nevertheless these patient testimonials cannot be ignored and I wish I had these patient testimonials available to me when people accused me of advocating dehumanizing robotic technology inspired by the motion picture The Terminator.

      The Ibot wheelchair features major technological advances such as a total of four wheels each of which are power driven and are mounted on 2 carriage assemblies of 2 wheels each. These carriages have the ability to rotate in a vertical position so that the wheelcahir can impossibly balance on 2 wheels using gyroscopes for balance and stability. When the carriages are rotated vertically in a standing position with one wheel on top of the other the wheelchair gains height which allows level eye to eye contact which is very important to the patients self esteem. The carriages can also rotate which allows the wheels to tumble up and down stairs. Also the Food and Drug administartion is testing a robotic exoskeleton invented in Israel which would allow a paralyzed person to walk.

      Politically the Ibot has received complete support and was purchased for war veterens. Although it is very expensive and it costs over $20,000 war veterens are regarded as heroes by our society and deserving of the very best that technology has to offer. Unfortunately for the civiallans who are regarded in our society as wimps and cowards Medicare refuses to pay for any exotic technolgy unless deemed medically necessary.

      The Veterens administration by selfishly promoting special privileges which are only available to soldiers are actually shooting themselves in the foot. This is because there are not enough wounded veterans to justify continued mass production of the Ibot. If the veterens would bless the peacemakers by advocate extending their medical benefits and priveleges to society as a whole they would find that they would have access to better medical care.

      • Hi Thomas,

        It's difficult to address comment such as this one without being concerned with discouraging noble thoughts on your part.

        To do the things advocated by the transhumanists would take more effort than simply turning to righteous behavior before all the technological attempts to bypass righteousness.

        Jesus was raised a builder. He understood construction. He understood the business of it, the money, the accounting, the scheduling, the engineering, etc. It was all technology. He also read all the passages that talked about or referred to or used that type of construction versus bringing forth starting with the most basic human-to-human aid such as just giving a thirsty person a drink of cool, clean water or a hungry person a morsel of food. Can we do it all? Yes. We can raise the dead if we will but believe it — collectively, without any hypocrites about and if we build upon righteousness totally and only.

        You are personally fascinated by human ingenuity and invention. However, you must not be lulled into misunderstanding where humanism apart from God enters into that whole direction. It is not metaphysical even though there is a spirit (yes force) behind it all that is consciously encouraging it to keep human souls down out of the spiritual realm.

        Frankly, if we turn to righteousness first, everything else will be added to us and that includes healing the paralyzed without technological anything.

        Also, though, when we turn to righteousness, God makes our everyday efforts more conducive to avoiding the accidents, etc., to begin with.

        It's not easy to explain, even though it's easy for me to think about.

        Some people just don't want to think on that level. They want their mundane, unthinking, uncaring, lives until they die and go where they know not and care not right now (too late).

        There will never be a technological invention that can make a lame person "whole" in the sense Jesus means the term, but don't be surprised when Satan makes the lame walk.

        I do appreciate your compassion and sympathy and empathy concerning people who are suffering paralysis from an automobile accident for instance. It's right to feel such feelings.

        It all comes down to setting priorities. We can do it all, but Jesus's plan is a progression. You are intrigued by leaps in technology, but we have tens of thousands of children starving or otherwise dying everyday from easily prevented causes. The whole system that has raised up the "robotic technology" is greed-based. Think about it. Think about all the mining and transportation and fuel burning, etc., involved; and think about all that would have to be set straight within that system to get all the damage to stop up and down the entire chain. Is starting at the top with the highest tech solution to paralysis the right place when the whole support mechanism is evil centered?

        The Christian Commons Project starts at the beginning. Then, what is built upon it is right end-to-end.

        Oh, I don't say give up on such things (technology). I do say look at the big picture. Is the technology coming out from selfishness or unselfishness? In your case, you want it for those who will be aided and not for the profits for the business owners bringing forth the technology. Where ever those owners' hearts are, there is error through-and-through. There is misdirection and finally doing no one a favor, even those given robotic wheelchairs.

        First things first, Thomas. That's Jesus's teaching.

        Decide if the Venus Project is right or if Christ is right. They don't jibe you know. There is no such thing as a Christian Venus Project. There's an important reason for that. It's huge and fundamental. Can you see it?

        As for the veterans, there shouldn't be any. Yes, take care of the ones there are, but stop making more. As for how they are being cared for, it's consistent with how they were used up. I'm not favorably impressed by anything the U.S. military does. It's completely evil. There isn't one righteous thing about it. Whenever anything righteous happens in or around the military, it's because someone isn't following the internal (nonpublic) military line.

        Peace again,


    • Good Day Tom Usher,

      This is to speak to your May 04, 2009 post above and to your request to "Please define 'judgmental". . .

      Judgemental is to mentally accuse another on the basis of one's own belief system of understanding -- as though that belief system is more valid than any other. This act is not the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" scenario that Christ taught for it lacks the "Divine Unconditional Love: that comes from the heart, the seed of all motivation, which Christ also taught.

      I believe this answers your request.

      God Bless, Always, All Ways, Jack Alexander

      • Whose belief system is valid, Jesus's or Satan's? Do you have unconditional love for Satan? Does that translate into not saying that the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project are antichrist and wrong? You don't know what you're talking about, Jack. I just demonstrated the Golden Rule toward you.

    • Good Day Tom,

      I am in awe of the belief in your reply statement to me and in your judgment now against me: "You don't know what your talking about, Jack."

      You see Tom, here's the difference in our approach to true Christ-like behavior and communication. I am not accusing you of anything. Your spirited and amusing child-like retort is not taken as a personal attack. To do so would be judgmental.

      What Spirit has shown and has taught me throughout my human existence is this truth: We are all sharing in this temporal life as humanity, as a Divine creation, a Divine experience, as children of a Perfect and Almighty Spirit, God!

      No-one, no-thing, can change this. Our collective Divine inheritance is a matter of Divine Fact. Our Almighty, Unconditionally Loving Creator and God makes it all too clear in the closing of the first chapter of Genesis, verse 31:

      "And God saw every thing that had been made, that was created, and, Behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

      The second chapter of Genesis is a parable, a message of separation from Divine that Moses himself experienced. To believe in this allegory as Biblical fact would be to take literally Christ's story of the separation of the sheep from the goats. This parable has a message; it is not to be taken as literal.

      God Bless, Always, All Ways, Jack

      • Of course you are accusing me of being how you define judgmental. It is incredible that you expect people not to see it while you come here preaching holier than thou.

        Second, only in your imagination does my reply fit your description: "spirited and amusing child-like retort ... [and] personal attack," which you then in the same breath say but you don't see it that way because "To do so would be judgmental." Wake up.

        You are reading with condemnation in your mind. You claim unconditional love for me, but you take my speaking only truth to you as offensive. Not only do you not love me unconditionally, you don't love me, period. The fact is, you hate my guts. No one could come here with your impossible agenda and not hate what you are seeking to kill, which makes your Venus Project look the invention of Hell, which it is.

        The mind of the Venus Project is the mind of an atheist. It's the mind of a technocrat humanist who rejects Jesus Christ and God. You boost that vision while claiming you're Christian. You come arguing rather than to learn. Change or go back with the atheists where you belong, Jack.

        I have found your illogic tedious. I have been instructed by God to persevere without letting such become a drag. In fact, people like you are moved to come here so that these things will be recorded here for effect.

        I said you don't know what you are talking about, and your name is Jack. It's your problem that you find that combination amusing and child-like in the belittling sense that you do.

        The fact still remains. You don't know what you're talking about.

        We are all sharing in this temporal life as humanity, as a Divine creation, a Divine experience, as children of a Perfect and Almighty Spirit, God!

        No-one, no-thing, can change this. Our collective Divine inheritance is a matter of Divine Fact.

        When taken with the rest of your context (not mine), that's completely wrong. Those who are dead of the Holy Spirit right in this here and now are not children of God. They are not experiencing the divine. The Pharisees who murdered Jesus were not children of God but of Satan. They did not inherit Jesus's Heaven. They are not with Jesus. Stop spreading such misleading ideas. Get thee behind me. You're preaching Luciferian nonsense. It's syncretism. The Zeitgeist movies were ridiculous. He knows nothing about the revelation and neither do you.

        You didn't answer my direct questions. You mark yourself. You couldn't answer. You have nothing of value to impart here. Your position is rejected. You speak as a goat. If followed, your words bring only iniquity. You are not my brother in Christ.

        You can read this with any tone your head produces. Try matter-of-fact. I have no bitterness toward the people who fall in the ditch while following the blind, but I'm not going to look back to become re-ensnared but rather plow on. I do shake the dust from my feet upon leaving the places where I'm rejected, but it is not I who calls down the wrath. My job is not to persecute. It's not what I do.

        What you've done here is bad. It's a nasty thing to be against the Christian Commons and for the Venus Project. You aren't pleasing God. You will inherit what you've been sowing. Mark my words. I'm right.

        Right now, you're dead. Repent, Jack. Come to life. Ask Jesus. Will he speak to you?

        Do you have unconditional love for Satan? Is his belief system as valid as Jesus's?

        Try asking for the answers since you couldn't bring yourself to say no to both questions because the answers blow holes right through your comments and you know it. Be honest for once.

        Real love is truth. So far, you haven't liked it.

    • Thomas James

      I found some interesting late breaking news concerning the Mars Project. Buzz Aldrin who is celebrating the 40th anniversary of his historic moon landing is now advocating a one man one way suicide mission to Mars. Apparently Buzz realizes that with the present political climate society will never grant the resources needed for a grandious 2 way mission to Mars simply because most people think we need to solve our problems on Earth first before we think about solving our problems on Mars. Of course people like Buzz believe we need to solve our problems on Mars first so we can have the technological capability to solve our problems on Earth. Apparently Buzz feels so strongly that a Mars mission will save the world that he is willing to have a person die for that belief.

      Economically suicide missions may be feasible because they would try to work within the existing budget of a space administration. Of course Americans would never support such a suicide mission but this does not rule out the Russians, the Chinese or the Indians. I would not be suprised that Americans in order to compete in the new space race would advocate a humanoid robot mission to Saturn.

      Of course I am not advocating that you support Buzz Aldrin's agenda. You can criticize Buzz all you want. The idea of suicide missions was first proposed by Arthur C. Clarke in his movie 2001 a Space Odyssey. After 40 years the idea is now becomming mainstream because the first astronaut to land on the moon is now advocating this technology.

      • Hi Thomas,

        I found this link: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/03/04/a-one-way...

        That linked article doesn't remind people about all the people (hundreds of millions) during the manned mission to the Moon who were saying that all the money, energy, effort, and brains should have been focused first on solving the problems right here on Earth. Your comment more than alludes to that wrongly ignored thinking. Thank you for seeing through the hype of NASA, which as it is, is really still hyper humanism and imperialism in their worst senses.

        When I was young at the time, I thought why can't we do both? Now that I'm older, I see much merit (full merit) in those who were saying that the missions to the Moon were at least premature. The benefits did not nearly outweigh the problems inherent in not focusing as much, even more, first on the major problems on the Earth, many of which are the direct result of a poorly conceived and executed Industrial Revolution.

        Right now, humanity should not go out into the rest of space and to other worlds because humanity will not inherently solve its problems by doing so but will rather use the experience more as a Band-Aid to mask untreated diseases of the heart or spirit.

        There should be no focus outward until the focus inward as been handled.

        Jim McLane has his priorities wrong. What he is advocating is taking the wrong spirits out into the rest of the Universe.

        We haven't dealt here with the spirits of greed, violence, and sexual depravity (harm).

        The problem I see is humanity becoming a polluter, devourer, and destroyer of the Universe rather than the opposite spirit.

        Let's get our hearts in the right place before trying to rush out doing harm to other places.

        Once our hearts are right, God will open the doors way beyond anything the technocrats have ever imagined. The most beautiful places there are, are beyond their vision. Those places are pristine and ought to remain places that are untouched by the greedy dead of the spirit. We should have our hearts in the right place such that we can "walk" in those places without doing the slightest harm but rather only bringing even more peace and truth.

        Let's become enlightened so that we will be truly beneficial in the Universe. Let's be a blessing rather than that which will be met by those who will find humanity utterly wicked.


    • Sophie Heuston

      Dear Tom,

      I write to you respectfully and ask that you take a moment to really step back and look at your values.

      What the Venus Project proposes that your vision can never provide is a world that is common heritage to all people. Not just to people who believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

      I once asked my religion teacher why Christianity was the "true" religion and why every other religion was "wrong". She couldn't answer the question and eventually sent me to the principal's office.

      I bring this up because I feel that it has the utmost relevance. You believe in Jesus Christ, very likely because your parents believed in Jesus Christ. Just as those who believe in other gods most often do so because their parents did. No one comes into this world as a blank canvas given the opportunity to learn equally about each religion and choose that one which they believe to be the correct one. Instead, children are born Christian, Muslim, Islamic, Jewish, etc. etc. etc.

      I don't believe that those children can be condemned as a result of where they were born any more than I feel that those children dying of starvation in Africa are "rightfully" so as a result of where they were born.

      What you are failing to recognize is that you are not spreading love. You are certainly not spreading respect or human dignity. What you are spreading is hate and ignorance. And these are the things that cause wars and divisions in the world.

      This is why your project will never work. The Venus Project is the future.

      You may now retort with how God hates me and how I am surely destined for Hell. And that will only serve to strengthen my points.

      I wish you a beautiful life; one filled with love and abundance.

      Yours Sincerely,


      • Sophie,

        You presume to know me, my background, what I will or won't be compelled or tempted to say, etc. Your comment is mean-spirited and flat-out wrong.

        The Venus Project is technology. It is not spirit. The founder is an atheist. He doesn't know God. Christ came to restore the rightful inheritance of all. Before you condemn my beliefs, you should read them. I've read the Venus Project and what its founder has to say.

        The Venus Project is dead of the Holy Spirit of truth. It is humanism apart from God, which has been the problem from the beginning.

        What difference does it make what you asked your teacher? So what if she couldn't answer the question. I can and have. Read it.

        I do not believe in Jesus Christ because my parents did. My parents didn't and don't believe what I believe. I didn't become a Christian until I was in my late forties.

        No one comes into this world as a blank canvas given the opportunity to learn equally about each religion and choose that one which they believe to be the correct one.

        That's completely wrong. I read about every religion I could long before I became a Christian.

        children are born Christian, Muslim, Islamic, Jewish, etc. etc. etc.

        I don't believe that those children can be condemned as a result of where they were born any more than I feel that those children dying of starvation in Africa are "rightfully" so as a result of where they were born.

        You presuppose condemnation. Again, you haven't read me. I condemn no one, not even those who are misguidedly following the human-techno salvation supposedly offered by the Venus Project.

        What you are failing to recognize is that you are not spreading love. You are certainly not spreading respect or human dignity. What you are spreading is hate and ignorance. And these are the things that cause wars and divisions in the world.

        You don't understand love. You are claiming that Jesus didn't know what real love is. It is not love to tell people that technology is salvation. Technology is not the end-all-be-all. In fact, if everyone would have the New Commandment written on his or her heart, there would be no need for it at all. That understanding transcends you though. You can't partake because your heart is too hardened.

        It is not love to tell people not to love God with their all. It is not love to disrespect the New Commandment and the Golden Rule as Jesus stated it and lived it and still does. It is not love to tell people that belief in Jesus causes wars. It is humanism apart from the real spirit of God that allows wars. Jesus's and my belief system does not allow for wars. All those who follow him in his beliefs refuse war. You lie about Jesus either deliberately or out of ignorance about real Christianity or both.

        You come here telling me that I am spreading hate. You come here in the spirit of hate for Jesus and God saying that. You do hate them. It's obvious. You hate me too, but you're too wrapped up in yourself to even see the error of your ways.

        Do I hate the Venus Project? I absolutely do and for all the reasons I've given. My project will work because it is what Jesus has in mind for the New Earth. He does not have the Venus Project in mind.

        You may now retort with how God hates me and how I am surely destined for Hell. And that will only serve to strengthen my points.

        That only serves my point that you haven't read me and don't know or understand Jesus or God. If you reject God who is by definition "righteousness" and is Heaven, how do you propose to enter in? You are duped by the one who seeks to devour your soul; and of course at this time, you don't know it. You are on the broad way to Hell. God does hate what you have written here against all that is Holy. You are only serving to fool yourself.

        If you were truly interested in the ultimate truth, you would have looked for it. You came here rather with a knee-jerk and ignorant plan to attempt to run down the truth that is God.

        The Christian Commons is vastly superior to the Venus Project mentality. If it weren't so, I'd be for the Venus Project.

        Atheism is doomed. It is blind. It doesn't see or hear. You go your way with the atheist Venus Project syncretist, I'll go mine, and never the twain shall meet.

        I suggest you read the Gospels with an open mind and heart. Perhaps your heart will soften enough that you will begin using higher regions of your brain matter rather than the harder more self-centered areas bent upon remaining anti-Christ.

        How anyone could read the words and deeds of Jesus and then still hate him is behind me with the Satanic spirit. Get thee behind me. I face God, and you don't stand in between. You aren't blocking my way in. I'm way beyond falling for the nonsense you've spewed here.

        When you have the real interests of all of humanity in your heart, let me know. Then you'll know Jesus for real and not before. If you don't like it that I've said it, you are given your free-will choice to head into Satan's arms. You won't like it though. Remember what you rejected and repent. It's the only way to real salvation whether you like the implication of your sinful desires or not.


    • Sophie Heuston

      Dear Tom,

      I`m sorry that I`ve offended you. You are right that I don`t know you. You have been fortunate in your life that you had the opportunity to study many religions and choose the God that you chose to follow. Too many others do not have that opportunity.

      You also don`t know me. I grew up Catholic, I went to a Catholic elemantary school, a Catholic high school, and I devoted much of my post-secondary study to theology. I am well versed in the history of Christianity along with many other religions.

      I do believe that your intentions are good. Unfortunately, they are not for me. While I may not believe in God it certainly doesn`t mean that I`m a bad person and deserve to be sentenced to Hell. I have lived a good life. I volunteer, I donate both my time and my money to many causes. I have two young daughters who have been raised to love and respect others. I treat everyone I meet with the utmost love and respect.

      If, at the end of the life that I have spent giving to others and trying to make the world beter, I learn that I was wrong all along and that God really does exist I may be sent to Hell for my doubt. However, if that is in fact the case, I do not want to follow the God that would condemn me so after the good life I`ve lived.



      • Well Sophie,

        That was one of the more intelligent replies, if not the most intelligent (of a type), I've had from an atheist.

        Let me say that you should know that from Heaven to Hell is analog and digital at the same time. There are levels. There are many mansions. Levels of pain and suffering we inflict upon ourselves and others are not identical for any two souls as far as I've been given to understand.

        You are falling short in my book, but if you have characterized yourself even remotely correctly, then you are not out machine gunning people or raping them or deliberately trying to do harm, etc. My God then knows that, and Satan will not place you in the hands of the lowest tormentors for eternity. However, you will not see God who is pure righteousness – the perfect spirit. There is a huge range between the two. Where will you land? What path are you on?

        Am I casting pearls before swine or giving the children's bread to the dogs? Am I making the mistake of rebuking a forever scorner? Who fits those terms as Jesus and Solomon use them? Sophie means wisdom. Solomon loved to think about her but fell short himself. Jesus mentioned her too and lived up to it. Are you she?

        You were raised in a Roman Catholic environment. The Roman Catholic Church stems from Constantine I. It deviated and allowed for horrendously anti-Christ behaviors within.

        I suggest to you that you threw out the good with the bad. Jesus is still the best soul you've ever heard of. You know that. Reconsider.



    • Sophie Heuston

      Thanks Tom,

      You may be right. Perhaps I have thrown out the good with the bad.

      As far as my path goes. I'm out to make the world better somehow through my time here. I'm still not sure where that path will lead me in the end. But I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

      I wish you all the best on your path.

      Warmest Regards,


      • No bitterness

        You are still a seeker. Look again. Read the Gospels without the Roman Catholic lens. It is leveling. It turns things right-side up again, for once.

        There is the Holy Spirit. It seems harsh, but that harshness is soft-hearted love.



    • Thomas James

      Recently I just watched a 1990's version of the horror movie called Frakenstein which we all know is about a 19th century doctor who raises people from the dead by assembling body parts from corpses and reanimating them by electricity. And I was thinking that this would be considered very shocking at the time the book was written as well as unethical and illegal.

      I was wondering if in reality Dr. Frankenstein was just merely misunderstood because he was too far ahead of his time. Today we assemble people from dead corpses only we call this technology transplants. We have heart transplants kidney transplants liver transplants and so on. And on the latest Oprah Winfrey show we have even a face transplant. Imagine that wearing the face of a corpse. And yet we think nothing of it because all of this technology is so mainstream. The reason why people think that Dr. Frankensteins monsters are so horrible is not because of the transplant technology but rather that Dr. Frankenstein was simply a lousy plastic surgeon. And what was once considered to be the realm of Satanism is now a Christian ethic for today many a Christian would gladly donate their heart if it would allow someone to live.

      Of course this is not to say that the vision of Mary Shelley is anyway equivalent to the healing of Jesus Christ because when Jesus heals you do not have to take anti-rejection drugs for life.

      But nevertheless I think all of these people that we consider evil such as Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Strangelove just need to clean up there act a little bit. It would help if Dr. Frankenstein would at least wait until people are dead before he starts harvesting body parts and it would help a lot if Dr. Strangelove would switch from dirty fission power based on weapons grade plutonium to clean fusion power based on burning hydrogen to create helium.

      Anyway thats my 2 cents.

    • Lei Mason


      "As the American Empire claims to be a light to the world, it murders innocent babies by Hellfire missiles fired from predator drones controlled by armchair, video-gaming serpents in uniform. It tortures those who are not even suspects. It spies on its own without even probable cause or reasonable suspicion. It lies its way into wars for spoils and control. It neglects its poor, whom it treads down for the sakes of the superrich — for the sake of the massive flow of mammon from the bottom up (no trickledown — trickledown is a farce and always has been). All is claimed to be okay in America though — that America is headed in the right direction — because soon, even "don't tell, don't ask" will be a thing of the quaint past and homosexuals may be able to sleep together and have sex in the barracks with the "blessing" of the Empire while they practice murdering the innocent for the sake of homosexual, greedy plutocrats who own them and who, in turn, are owned by the dark-side spirit named by God and Jesus as Satan."

      So very true. I like your site--it's honest.

    • Matt Morigeau

      Peter has pointing out the shortcomings of religion and it's obvious stagnant effect on society in the interest of moving humanity forward. This isn't evil. It is rude, it is perhaps pointless since we need ideas and action, and not finger pointing to undo the real problems that surround us. But it is not evil.

      Most importantly humanity is a tool building species on this planet and we are exceptional at it in my opinion. Your man Jesus is a perfect example of this. The Zeitgeist movement is a collective simply interested in using the scientific method (not science as a belief) to encourage this ability throughout our worlds social organization.

      Many that are part of the movement are atheist or feel most religion to be a hindrance to a peaceful transition from our current societal organization. However anyone can accept that humanity and the planet will only survive together if we remove the monetary system, then any belief beyond that understanding is a moot point.

      You spoke of digging deeper. Many of the radio addresses that Peter has done have stated that the first movie was created more out of passion and in the interest of collecting attention. He's stated that very few points made in the first movie are relevant to the movement's interests. Dig deeper and you will see that this movement is not evil and does not lack spirit simply because it does not require a savior. It carries the spirit of social unity, combined interest and building answers to our world's issues.

      Just as Peter is "tricking us" into trying to considering the Venus Project as a viable option. You are "tricking us" into blindly following a piece of centuries old literature that carries the same relevance as Sun Tsu's The Art or War (only as relevant as we make it in our life).

      Jesus wanted us to love. You don't get to judge Peter or anyone in the Zeitgeist without ignoring that message. You don't get to simply because you don't know everything about the movement and you know even less about the people involved. Only the almighty can know those things and only he should cast judgment. Perhaps you could bring the carpenter's skills and lessons to unite the movement. Show him what righteous, forgiving love can do for the movement. Show us what you feel the movement is lacking and dare us to prove you wrong.

      Whether the bible is true or not, it is written by people. The flaw will always be in people and so long as there is a human element in the bible, people will question its validity especially as time passes. You know its true so live by it. Don't use condemning words on someone who doesn't understand you simply because you don't understand him. Be the change that Jesus wanted for humanity. Speak his word, not yours.

    • Matt Morigeau

      I'd also like to point out that Peter has never offered "truth" he's only offered an idea. He offers the Venus Project but it isn't "Peter and his Venus Project". In a lot of ways the Venus Project can belong to all of us. But it was Jacques Fresco's creation and the Zeitgeist movement is simply the activist arm interested in its ideals and their implementation.

      I hate to point this out but the list you gave of "What Peter Joseph is..."

      are all things you have done in your own speech as well. How is it "logically consistent" to say that everyone who believes in the success of the Venus Project is going to hell because Jacque Fresco feels (and Peter seems to agree that) religion is a stagnant aspect in social change How is that logical at all?

      I agree that no salvation is found in the creation of technology. Only ease can be found with technology. Could the carpenter build without his tools? Is the ease found from using tools evil? Salvation is only found after death through prayer and following the lessons and words of your god in life. What Venus Project wants has nothing to do with death and does not stop anyone from prayer or following the lessons of your savior.

      You claim to hold holy truth then bring it to the Zeitgeist. Don't hold it greedily only to be viewed by those that agree with you and follow you and your movement. You claim your truth need not be tested but I dare you to test it. If it is truth you have no reason not to share it and bring that truth to all movements.

      The Zeitgeist movement simply says that most of today's global issues can be answered with moral intentions and the right technology. Money is holding us back from that technology and creates many, if not all of these issues. The Venus Project is interested in rebuilding our societal infrastructure to address this. Notice how religion can be left out of this equation or infused into the equation as much or as little as a person wants?

      The only trick Peter played on any of us is getting us interested in an idea. Like it or not he tricked you into looking at this idea. He questioned the purpose and importance of your current beliefs to help you to consider the importance of those beliefs in building toward true positive change. Change that has little to nothing to do with your beliefs (unless you feel the need to change them).

      Maybe technology can't keep us out of hell (only we can do that). But what if using it could help remove the temptation of greed and give us the time in our day to know and truly love one another? What is evil about those ideas?

      • Matt,

        You've not read much of this site; or if you have, you've not understood much of it.

        Also, you've incorrectly assumed all sorts of things about what I do and don't know about the Zeitgeist Movement.

        This Peter person has never been my focus, and he didn't trick me into anything.

        I don't know how old you are, but I read Jacque Fresco (without the s) decades ago.

        In addition, you appear to be extremely ignorant about Christianity – not unusual. There is no testing in Christianity.

        You aren't understanding. Anything that is anti-God is evil by definition and whether you like that or not. God is righteousness and not confined to some Earth-age notion. You're going to have to open your mind a great deal more than you've suggested here with your two comments to talk to me about this.

        Also, I can already see that you don't speak for the Movement and that you think it's a moving target. It's not.

        Nevertheless, peace to you,

        Tom Usher

    • Matt Morigeau


      I’m choosing to ignore the same ignorant assumptions that you’re not only making of me but assuming I’m making of you. Instead I’ll try and focus on the topics that you seem to have decided to address in your reply.

      Also, you've incorrectly assumed all sorts of things about what I do and don't know about the Zeitgeist Movement.

      Of course I have, you’ve decided I’m going to hell with a lot of like minded people, you don’t know anything about us and you base your feelings on one facet of the movement that frankly isn’t even a large focus for most members. Essentially my assumptions are based on what you’ve said and either don’t know or chosen not to say.

      This Peter person has never been my focus, and he didn't trick me into anything.

      If Peter has never been your focus then why do you bring him up 25 times in this harsh prejudgment of him, the movement and everything connected to it (calling it evil). You may not know, but Peter Joseph’s interest in creating the Zeitgeist movies was to startle people, get them talking about the movement and finally get them interested in the Venus Project. Maybe this doesn’t seem like a trick to you but you are taking notice to the ideas of the Venus Project and its movement. You named him a trickster (that’s because you think he’s fooling us from putting Jesus before all else) and frankly this is the only trick I see him playing.

      I don't know how old you are, but I read Jacque Fresco (without the s) decades ago.

      Perhaps the fact that you read about Jacque Fresco and his work decades ago is the flaw in this discussion. People change, ideas change and thankfully they improve contrary to the beliefs of so many who are not willing to admit to their own change and be honest with themselves.

      In addition, you appear to be extremely ignorant about Christianity – not unusual. There is no testing in Christianity.

      Continuing to call me ignorant doesn't move the discussion forward, if you can't point out where the lack in my logic exists then please stop being ageist and assuming you know my level of knowledge. Perhaps there are aspects of your Christianity that I’ve never had any experience with but obviously the same could be said of you with the Zeitgeist movement otherwise you’re observations wouldn’t be so dated and blindly focused. You’re entire speech is stuck on a single facet of the movement and how you feel it threatens your beliefs. Instead of digging deeper you’ve found something that upsets you and you’ve written very judgmental things about it because of a faith that who’s lessons you’re ignoring.

      You aren't understanding. Anything that is anti-God is evil by definition and whether you like that or not. God is righteousness and not confined to some Earth-age notion. You're going to have to open your mind a great deal more than you've suggested here with your two comments to talk to me about this.

      Actually I do understand the above aspect of you beliefs quite clearly. I’m plainly telling you that the Zeitgeist movement welcomes a believer. Its only anti-God claim was made to get the attention of the masses and to stop the stagnant position of our current society. As far as my open mind I’m plainly expressing my opinion just as you had about the movement. If you can claim to have an open mind yourself on this subject then you wouldn’t be denying my dialogue and accusing me of ignorance. Jesus took the time to teach, maybe consider using his example. Again you might disagree but I clearly feel my knowledge of this movement, its ideals and more importantly its members greatly exceeds yours based on what I've read. Every movement requests, wishes, hopes and some demand that others take the time to understand their beliefs and ideals. Something that sets the Zeitgeist movement apart from others is its willingness to bring other ideals and beliefs into the movement so long as they encourage 1)a society without money or possessions 2)moral and practical technologies 3)the understanding that earth and its resources are a common heritage of all living things.

      Also, I can already see that you don't speak for the Movement and that you think it's a moving target. It's not.

      We live in space and time. Time passes. That creates a moving target and if you aren’t willing to fire at where the target is then you’re harsh criticisms and judgmental form of expression leave little for anyone to have any interest in. You don’t realize that the movement is a moving target. It is a constant work in progress (as all science is) and this movement is pushing toward a change to care for everyone by using the cumulative knowledge of the planet. It’s not the Utopian ideal you paint it to be, it just wants something better then what we have. Even the most devout of any religion can look around and hope for better then what we’ve built so far. Obviously even you, since you feel that this “system of mammon” needs to be removed for us to be judged righteous in the eyes of your Jesus.

      • UPDATED: February 5, 2010 at 9:30 AM PST:


        You miss even the few points I give you.

        You don't know what I've decided about Hell. You haven't asked me, and I haven't told you.

        You make sweeping statements such as that I "don't know anything about" your Movement. How do you know what I do or don't know about it?

        If you think I've had one exposure to it, you're dreaming.

        I can raise a person a thousand times and still not necessarily have him as my focus. Did you actually count how many times I used your Peter's name?

        "Harsh" is your view -- no harsher then your tone.

        I've read things and heard him in videos and audio programs (that's plural) on various subjects. I don't need to be with him every moment to have come to the correct conclusion that he is not going to be my leader. I'm not interested in him in that sense. He doesn't have a better idea. My saying that makes you upset. Too bad. You're not upsetting me.

        I'm not changing to your Movement. I'm calling people to Jesus's Movement, which has never been allowed to work because of selfish, greedy, violent, sexually depraved people. I believe in what Jesus said and did. If you don't like that, again, too bad.

        Look, Matt, Barack Obama gave a State of the Union Address, and I've commented on it. The fact that the powers that be have the microphone and that people are being duped into warfare doesn't commend them. Just because people started yakking about Peter's video doesn't commend anything.

        I say he's misleading people. You want to argue for him. Okay, I've allowed you to spew here. You've failed with me. What did you expect, that I'd say what I've been working on is all wrong and now I'm a convert to your Movement? I'm not wrong. My idea is better. You haven't offered a thing that shows that your Movement is better than or equal to the Christian Commons for all the souls in this world. If you were to, I'd join up. I want what's best. Your Movement is anti-Christ. It's not as good as what Jesus teaches or as good as what he's called for.

        I'm confident that sexual depravity is underlying much of your membership. I want nothing to do with that. Christianity is about overcoming that, not being ecumenical or syncretistic with it.

        Where do you stand on homosexuality as a Movement? You don't stand against it. I'm not interested. I'm against homosexuality and always will be. If you don't like that, go with the homosexuals.

        Am I out to coerce them? No, I don't use fascistic tactics, secular or otherwise, or call for them. Are you opposed to secular coercion? I should hope so. Do you denounce homosexuals using the violently coercive power of the secular state to force Christians to accept distortions about homosexuality such as that it's harmless, it's not a choice, and that Jesus condoned it? You haven't gotten around to being that specific about that have you. You are against the coercive state though I hope. So, you say that you accept homosexuality for all the false and illogical reasons the homosexual "community" has been propagandizing for decades now.

        Have you read the Bible? Have you read the Gospels? We aren't speaking the same language. Who's the trickster? Who didn't fall for it?

        I don't care what this Peter attempts to do to morph his Movement around. It's not right at it's core no matter what he attempts to do.

        Look, Matt, you're hyper for this Zeitgeist Movement crap (it's crap relative to real Christianity). So, go do it before you read the Bible to see if you should or not.

        If you want to think that the Venus Project isn't still what Fresco had in mind and that your guru, Peter Joseph, isn't still pushing what Fresco had in mind decades ago, that's up to you. Your Peter has simply wrapped it in a different sheep skin.

        I don't care if your Movement will welcome me. It won't welcome me with my Christianity. I'm not entering your Movement. I don't want what you want. I reject your Movement. It's not good enough.

        "Its only anti-God claim"? Are you a Christian? You are not. Is Peter a Christian? He is not. Is Fresco? No. What do you want from me? I'm not interested. I'm calling people away from your Movement. Your Movement isn't as good as Jesus's. Your Movement causes souls to miss the mark. Read Jesus before you tell me I'm wrong.

        In addition, another proponent of your Movement, nearly simultaneously with your submissions, submitted Facebook comments here (rather than using the WordPress commenting system you used). Did you compare notes. His comments indicate doubt concerning the power or desire of the Holy Spirit to feed the people. However, "Give us our daily bread" is a Christian spiritual understanding. Doubt in this regard, among others, is anti-Christ. God is feeding all of us in the flesh now. Without God, there would be no food and no us. That's not the whole of it, but that understanding is critical in beginning to comprehend Jesus.

        I've read Fresco and your guru. Now I've seen your writing too. I'm not favorably impressed. You haven't sold me on a thing. In fact, my overall impression of your Movement has gone relatively down as a result of your comments here.

        "Jesus took the time to teach." Whom did he teach? He hasn't taught you. He turned off teaching when people such as you came around. Read him. It's right there. I've read him and read him and read him. Don't come here trying me about Jesus and Christianity.

        You base conclusions about correctness on how many people are "joining" your Movement relative to how many have seen the light of the Christian Commons? You wanted me to point out where you're illogical. I just did.

        1)a society without money or possessions 2)moral and practical technologies 3)the understanding that earth and its resources are a common heritage of all living things.

        If you bother to read the Christian Commons, you'll see that Jesus was already there concerning mammon and property. The Apostles were communists. I've said that technology is only as good as the unselfish spirit that goes into it. That's original with me. Someone else may have said something very similar before I first thought it; but I have yet to see that, and it's still from God directly to me. I've also said that the evil ones have stolen the rightful inheritance of all. I've said it repeatedly. However, "common heritage of all living things" is not where I'm from or going with you because you don't use the term "living" as Jesus and I do. So, if you want to be better than the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project, join me with Jesus.

        Now, I might entertain you posting direct answers to direct questions, although the questions are largely rhetorical because you aren't about to convert to Christianity since you haven't even read it, or have you? I'd rather you haven't. If you have, with how you've held forth here, you're in worse spiritual shape. So, if it occurs to you to reply with some voluminous comment reminiscent of what you've already said, forget it.

        Lastly, as for ageism, you should be careful not to throw that out too easily. "Out of the mouths of babes...." Did I know that before you were born? I said, "I don't know how old you are." You could have been much older. You haven't appeared to care to consider or assign potential value to the fact that I may have been considering for many decades all these issues about how society should be organized (around which principles). For one, I studied society and technology at the School of Engineering at Arizona State University. That's far from my only interaction I've had with the subject matter. You need to consider that with some people, when you speak to them about these issues, you may not be turning them on to something they didn't already know.

        Matt, you haven't told me a thing here that I didn't already know. Tell me something significant that I didn't already know, or stop being so condescending even while attempting to couch it in modest terms. You rave about Peter Joseph's Movement while you say he isn't claiming to be bringing the truth. I'm interested in the truth, not ideas that are lesser than Jesus's. Inform me of that which is greater than what Jesus said. If you can't, then get behind me.

        Relax Matt. Think it all the way through before you continue on. If you blow off reading Jesus and asking the tough questions and just continue on headlong into following after your current guru, Peter Joseph, I won't be seeing you next to God.

        Don't fall in with the sons of perdition. May God bless you.



        • Matthew Morigeau

          Hello again Tom,

          Hello again Tom,

          You don't get to judge whether you will see me next to god or not, only god can only god will. Frankly I'm not sure why you waste empty words from the bible on people you are so sure are going to burn anyways. But no matter what you say about Peter, Jacque, members of TZM or myself it only keeps you from practicing a common Christian truth. God is the connection between people, if you ignore that connection simply because that person doesn't believe, you miss the chance to help the world realize the glory of god through that connection. You could bring your movement along side TZM and realize that both are the same or stand alone and waste your breath screaming about devils in the night.

          Either way humanity will never overcome its common hurtles if we all keep losing our focus on selfish pursuits and shallow opinions of one another. If your immortal soul is more important then possibly saving the souls of billions then so be it. Love and be with your god. Humanity chose knowledge through temptation, if you can't see what has tempted you and are too selfish to connect humanity then your movement is no better then any and is as lost as all of them are without each other. I would dare say, so are you. For the record, my soul is fine, you don't need to worry.  If you're just going to be rude, bigoted and judgmental, you will achieve nothing and even if your heaven is full, your world will remain this barren place with only devils and godlessness. But if you set the example then the TZM, Christians, humans and all living things could be better off.

          This is all I had to say. I can relax now, I hope you can relax, connect and focus too.

          Matthew Morigeau

        • "You don't get to judge whether you will see me next to god or not, only god can only god will."

          Jesus said who will and won't be next to God and why and why not. If you think Satan gets to be next to God and I'm not allowed to say otherwise, that's your problem. Jesus expects me not to agree with you, and I don't.

          "Frankly I'm not sure why you waste empty words from the bible on people you are so sure are going to burn anyways."

          I haven't said who changes and who doesn't upon hearing what you call "empty words from the bible." If you think Jesus's words are empty, then go your way. If you think you'll end up next to God thinking that way, again, that's your problem. I know better. You won't.

          Jesus is better than you are. There's no doubt about it. I trust him over you, always. You can't hold a candle to him. Relative to his light, yours is utter darkness. Your ego stands in your way of knowing that. Perhaps you'll come to see the real light though. Regardless, what I'm saying to you will stand the test of eternity and perhaps help others.

          People who hear Jesus's voice are the ones Jesus said belong with him. You don't hear him. If you did, you wouldn't be making the claims here about me that you are.

          "But no matter what you say about Peter, Jacque, members of TZM or myself it only keeps you from practicing a common Christian truth. God is the connection between people, if you ignore that connection simply because that person doesn't believe, you miss the chance to help the world realize the glory of god through that connection."

          God is not the connection between all people. Evil currently "connects" more people than it doesn't, even though it fractures them endlessly in the process. Don't you know that Satan is the god of this worldly world, the god of the Godless humanists? God is absent between and among many, many people. That's why Jesus said that few there be that find it. You are a nonbeliever in Jesus. The connection is Jesus. You reject the connection. I don't. If you want to connect, then do it. Jesus is right there. What are you waiting for?

          "You could bring your movement along side TZM and realize that both are the same...."

          How ridiculous that statement truly is. Christianity and your movement are not the same. If they were the same, then your movement would be Christianity and you'd be a Christian. That's fundamental. Ask a halfway intelligent 6-year-old. If you find that rude, then ask yourself why you've lost the ability to think as clearly as an average 6-year-old on the matter. It's not rude unless you hate being told the truth and you hate being properly rebuked for spreading utter falsehood.

          I love the truth, and even though God's rebuke is stern, I'd rather have God care enough about me to rebuke me that I might repent then to be as you are, as you've made plain about yourself here, the condition of your spirit (darkness).

          "If your immortal soul is more important then possibly saving the souls of billions then so be it."

          If I lose my soul by joining the nonbelievers in their unbelief, how will I save "the souls of billions"? Really, you talk complete nonsense, which is what I've heard over and over and over from the people in your technocratic, anti-Christ movement.

          "Humanity chose knowledge through temptation...."

          What knowledge? It was the "knowledge" of evil. That's not real. You're asleep.

          "...if you can't see what has tempted you...."

          Did I, do I, repent of nothing?

          "and are too selfish to connect humanity"

          I call humanity to connect in the righteous teachings of Jesus Christ. You hear your Peter Joseph instead. Do you really think your Peter Joseph's teachings are superior to Jesus's? Do you really think it doesn't matter that he isn't a Christian?

          "...then your movement is no better then any and is as lost as all of them are without each other."

          Take a clue. There is no correctness in numbers, per se. Jesus went to that cross alone. He alone knew all that he did -- he and God his father and the Holy Spirit. The rest must follow or be lost. You don't like that. I love it.

          "For the record, my soul is fine...."

          Is it? You reject Jesus, but you think your soul is fine.

          "If you're just going to be rude, bigoted and judgmental...."

          Rude? If you love Jesus, you don't find me rude. Bigoted? Of course I'm bigoted against evil. Anyone who isn't is an idiot. Judgmental? I suggest you re-read your own words here looking for any judgments on your part. It's loaded with judgments, albeit misguided ones.

          "...you will achieve nothing and even if your heaven is full, your world will remain this barren place with only devils and godlessness."

          You don't believe in the New Heaven and New Earth, conflated. I do. Regardless, your movement isn't about God. Why do you speak of devils and godlessness when your movement isn't about God? My movement is about God though. That's why yours is the one that fails in the end, as it is wrong from the beginning -- Godless humanism. That's your movement.

          "But if you set the example then the TZM, Christians, humans and all living things could be better off."

          If I lie to the people the way you do by falsely claiming that Christianity and your godlessness are one, then the people will not be better off but will be further misled and continue falling into the bottomless pit.

          "This is all I had to say. I can relax now...."

          Since your soul was fine, why were you not relaxed before?

          "I hope you can relax...."

          About what? I'm not nervous about you.

          "....connect and focus too."

          Not with you, I won't -- not until you connect with Jesus Christ and stop following those who condone men sticking their penises up each others anuses. Don't tell me that you didn't know that your movement is fine with that.

          Don't comment here again in the same vain vein. If you are sincere about learning about Jesus, then fine. If you want to promote your Godless movement, go do it somewhere else. The door is shut here to it.

          I let you have your full say. We don't need redundancy from you. Anyone who is interested in Godlessness misleading souls into humanistic technocracy can find your movement for a season -- until the real spirit of Christ returns in full and the unrepentant demons scurry away and are thrown back to the Hell of their false god's making.

          If that's rude to you, so be it. If you love the truth, it won't be seen as rude but rather peace and love.

    • Thomas James

      Years ago when I was a little boy I had a dream of becomming an astronaut and going to the moon. Yet everyone told me that it was an impossible dream. First of all there could only be one Neil Armstrong and my eyesight would never qualify me as a pilot let alone an astronaut and the economics of manned space travel would be prohibitive politically especially when it is at the expense of social programs. Yet I still had the dreams even though the dreams could never be practical.

      But then I finally realized that space travel is truly affordable and it would become common enough that poor eyesight would not hold you back as long as it can be corrected by glasses. All I had to do was to become like Prometheus and steal fire from heaven. And now everyone is telling me that I am making a deal with the devil. Look its people like Werner Von Braun that make deals with the devil because they use their rocket technology for military purposes. On the otherhand it is perfectly acceptable to beat swords into plowshares. I have realized that after all these years I have let others put limits on what I can and cannot do. My mind really has no limits and I believe that any limits are put in place by others trying to hold me back but they cannot hold me back unless I allow them. And you say right now that I am to old for space travel? Wrong again because older people are the best canditates for space travel simply because radiation hazards are not as meaninful to people who are going to die anyways.

      Hey I agree with you fire is a terrible thing but am I going to stop burning gasoline just because napalm causes horrible burning to children living in Vietnam?

      I think geniuses make other people uncomfortable because the human mind has evolved to the point of insanity. Yet the psychologists tell us that without insanity there would be no geniuses but rather only very ordinary yet very stupic people. And without insanity there would be no inventions because every invention starts out to be a crazy idea. Without insanity there would be no brilliant mathemeticians like John Nash. So to me madness is not how irrational creative or eccentric an individual is but rather does he use his inventions for evil or for good?

      • Thomas,

        Whom are you addressing? To whom are you referring? Where you have used the word "you," it doesn't apply to me. It doesn't readily apply to those who are attempting to put the Venus Project over the Christian Commons. Neither the Christian Commons nor the Venus Project is opposed to "plowshares."

        Are you agreeing that technology is only as good as the spirit that goes into it? It sounds that way, but you appear not to be connecting enough the harm of the technological process that is bringing space travel right now. That system is darkness. The planet is being raped for technology. So, if you're high on going to the Moon or other planets, etc., back up and do it in ways that don't result in a net liability when all is said and done. By Christian definition, to do that requires the heart of Christ. It takes a Christian mind to grasp the full implication of that statement.

        Concerning the issue of gasoline, it is also about greedy, polluting, dictator-sustaining oil conglomerates. We should be talking whole system here – end-to-end. If the Christian Commons is better, why say something else is the best thing toward which to aim? If the Christian Commons is better, why not push it with everything you have? Let the Zeitgeisters join it rather than the other way around. They won't because they are anti-Christ. Do you love God with your all, or are you divided?

        This is not to say that aspects of certain groups that are right should not be stated as such, but supporting-membership is a different matter. It takes careful qualification, and there are times and places that you should clearly hear the voice of the Holy Spirit informing you not to enter in, in such a supportive way. The Venus Project is brought to you by anti-Christs. You should hear that.

        As a professing Christian, you claim to believe that Jesus by God's will did what people call miracles. Are you with him and also with those who deny him? What is the meaning of the leaven of the Pharisees? Why did Jesus not test God? What happens when you test God, Thomas? As a Christian, you should know these things and stand by them consistently including where the topics of technology and membership in groups for the purpose of supporting and not just to be able to refute, etc., is concerned.

        As for John Nash, he came to wrong conclusions, Thomas. He did not come to Jesus. He worked for the insane Cold Warriors. The RAND Corporation and all the war gamers who dreamed up the ridiculous Team-B, etc., "loved" him. The blatant liar, war criminal Donald Rumsfeld and his "We know Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" fit right in with it all. I don't assign all the errors to John Nash of course. The conclusion that brought him huge accolades though is false. I'm not favorably impressed by John Nash. Why are you? What light has he shed?

        Perhaps I've misread your comment. Please flesh this out if you are able.

        Also, are you a member of the Venus Project and/or Zeitgeist Movement? Declare yourself. If you are, how do you reconcile that with being a Christian who is to give himself over to Christianity 100% while also working for what is anti-Christ?

        The Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement are as religions, congregations, with tenets that run contrary to and that reject Christianity by professing doubt in the God of Jesus Christ, Thomas. That's a fact.

        Thomas, you should also be aware that the Zeitgeist Movement is New Age, and I don't mean the New Heaven and New Earth of Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter that Peter Joseph has been tap dancing and backpedaling claiming he wasn't making emphatic statements about things. He made them and hasn't said he was flat wrong that I know of about a number of them that have been clearly refuted. He's hedged in hindsight is what I see and hear. I don't admire that and see it as indicative of a mind not to follow or to go along with but rather to correct.

        I don't agree with everything Chris White and Keith Thompson have said in refuting the Zeitgeist Movement, but they've gone a long way. They are more fundamentalist/literalist then I. We part company part perhaps only for lack of a full dialogue rather than as with the rejection of Zeitgeisters.

        You can agree with the Zeitgeisters up to the point that they can't go on to God. I agree with what is true. Where a group professes decided falsehood, I'm not a member nor will I join in support. The Zeitgeist Movement is a whole-way-of-life Movement even though it has been attempting deceptively to backpedal from it. Real Christianity is a whole-way-of-life Movement, and I have no intention of backpedaling but pushing on to God.

        I'm a member of the Anti-War Movement. It has plenty of atheists in it. Can you see a difference between being a member of the Anti-War Movement and the Zeitgeist Movement for a Christian? Is it too subtle? To me it's stark.

        ...madness is not how irrational creative or eccentric an individual is but rather does he use his inventions for evil or for good?

        This is part and parcel of your not looking enough at the system and its consequences. You are focused in on the gizmo, Thomas, and not everything that happened on the way to having it. It's not just how the "invention" is used. It's how it came to be too. Was it from a string of causes where all the negatives are deemed externalities? That's shortsightedness.

        I'm not in agreement that anything good comes out from madness. If you're point is that the term madness is often assigned to the sane, such as when the evil ones said Jesus was possessed by a demon, only then will I agree.

        If you are all so techno, why do so few of you ever seem to have a URL? I don't mean a URL to some site run by others or to some site that's just thrown up just to be able to say you have one either.

        Lastly, Thomas, whether you meant to or not, you distracted from my last comment, which was to Matt Morigeau and addressed the issue of sexual depravity and the lack of a committed statement by the Zeitgeist Movement against sexual harm.

        They are against capitalism. I hope they are anti-violent. Are they total pacifists? They come here and rail against me but don't say anything to me that suggests they are with me 100%.

        The issue of homosexuality is still there concerning the whole-way-of-life, New Age, anti-Christ, humanist Zeitgeist Movement.

    • Steve Sojo

      If I proposed to you a project which aims at the goals of RBE using legal and financial mechanisms that was not affiliated with the venus project then how would you feel about it? Is it the movement? RBE is the future and in a true RBE society all are free to learn knowledge and every one is brought up to a standard of a 1st world nation in a sustainable manner.

      • Steve Sojo,

        I will get right to it. Perhaps you'll be offended, but that won't be my fault.

        I am dis-impressed with your not using names but acronyms where the name has not been said. Also, you didn't supply a URL, and your email address is not to your domain.

        Are you or are you not proposing something? What's the point in the hypothetical?

        "Is it the movement?" It's not the Christian Commons. I'm interested in the solution offered by Jesus Christ, Steve. That's all.

        You're not off to a good start. It doesn't bode well.


    • Hello Tom,

      No I am not offended. The RBEF will be a tool for operations in which all groups working towards a sustainable social and economic world. You may have the chance to view our site and what we are working towards for yourself then we can proceed with this conversation.

      • Steve Sojo,

        You used only an acronym again.

        Your URL is now available (although not in the body of your comment); and for other readers, I can attest that Steve's email address supplied now points to his domain.


    • Honorio Danganan Jr.

      I havent read all af the comments, but i think Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist Movement only got so much popularity to the fact that he is from Advertising business, he is a film editor. he knows how to fool people. Specially those who are as flawed as he is.

      What i know from the start, is that Zeitgeist started by attacking on the existence of Jesus Christ. That Jesus was only created by the Catholic Church?

      Let me explain my side in order to aide those who resist on this Zeitgeist Lunacy.

      At First, in the beginning of time on this earth, God has Jesus Christ, the Messiah as his master plan. In Fact the prophecies about the coming of the Messiah dates back to Enoch. My Theory is this, First: During the dessimination of knowledge in the time of Ptolemy, where they gathered Books of Cultures accross the lands of Alexander the Great into the library of Alexanria. The Greeks have come accross the Bible of the Early Jews which is the Old Testament. By then, Copies of the Begotten Son can be seen in some cultures like the Greek Mythology(Zues and Permitheus the Rider of the Peggasus a black flying horse, -copy of Jesus's 2nd coming then the evil Hades), The North Germanic old English Goddesses (Mighty Thor son of Odin, and the evil Lokie) you know what i mean, then so a lot of claims about a Messiah can be seen all accross History, In Fact, The Story of Messiah could be the most popular Prophecy in all of History.

      Second, it might also came from the Doctrine of Sammuramis the wife of Nimrod which declares their son the Tammuz the Savior of Mankind, she obviously used the Prophecy about the coming of Jesus like a sworn false prophet. From the time God changed their Languages, those who built the Tower of Babel, each language brought along with them the Doctrine of Sammuramis instead of the Elders by Noah.

      What I noticed from this movement Zeitgeist, is that their proraganda changes from time to time, from Atheism, to what environment Venus Project??? then now the claim that Zeitgeist is a multi relgious faith in their website.

      Why do they differ themselves from Communism? I mean, the whole concept itself is in plain sight Communism right, he never answered this on his video moving forward, just fell down a heart attack.

      And Last, why does he attack on the system itself when he accuses the system of "blaming tactics" the politicians and bankers and religious institutions etchetera... when he totally do this himself the blaming tactics.

      I had this thought, well just a thought, that maybe you had to go look into. that maybe this Peter Joseph was hired by a group of Elite People who maybe wants change in the system, i mean look at the Guy, he's a former Advertising Film Editor and a former Market trader. He's got the resume to be declared as what? the founder of the Zeitgeist Movement. Maybe someone or some group is behind this thing. I mean look at the guy, he definitely look like Jesus men! and his father is a post master and his mother a social worker, definitely like Jesus, a good resume for a founder. he could be hired men.

      thanks for your time.

      Bong - Philippines

    • GuitarMan1st


    • GuitarMan1st

       Peter Joseph Merola,
      Born: USA

      The American marimba player, composer
      and arranger, P.J. Merola, is a alumni of The North Carolina School of
      the Arts and the Mannes Conservatory of Music in NYC.