Two women, two [tag]Americans[/tag], both professing [tag]Christianity[/tag], both condemning [tag]torture[/tag]

Visit their posts on the subject:

"Holocaust Rememberance Day," by [tag]Donna Bragg[/tag]. [tag]My Christian Diary[/tag]. April 21, 2009.

(NOTE: If the [tag]F-word[/tag] is a stumbling block for you, don't visit the next site. The term is used twice, I believe; however, it is in context, not for shock value in the applicable post, but rather to take it straight to [tag]American[/tag]/[tag]UK[/tag]/[tag]Australian[/tag]/[tag]Israeli[/tag]..., [tag]neoconservative[/tag], [tag]mainstream-media[/tag], root supporters of the utterly abhorrent, unenlightened, [tag]dark side[/tag], barbaric practice that is torture and the poor excuse for a euphemism, "[tag]enhanced interrogation techniques[/tag]," that most assuredly includes, among other methods, [tag]waterboarding[/tag].) "Enhanced," what demon-possessed, idiot thought up that one? Has anyone been dumb enough openly to take unrepentant credit for it? Wise as a serpent isn't always very difficult, is it? In fact, there's a place in [tag]semantics[/tag] were serpents don't have a shred of wisdom. That's the case in the Real, New Heaven. You see, in a contest of real [tag]intelligence[/tag], [tag]Satan[/tag] doesn't have a prayer against [tag]God[/tag] (the real one).

"Bria says Condi Don't Get Down Like That.. Well Yes She Does Bria," by [tag]RE Ausetkmt[/tag]. [tag]BadGalsRadio[/tag]. April 24, 2009.

Donna's post certainly makes [tag]holocaust[/tag] denying appear rather ridiculous. One might debate the total numbers of those tortured and executed by the [tag]Nazis[/tag], but to suggest that it was not a huge number of people of many different walks of life and particularly aimed at [tag]Jews[/tag] is plain stupid regardless of the psychological twists involved in propagandizing after-the-fact on any facet of the whole wicked side of human history.

What I mean here is that there is in fact a [tag]holocaust industry[/tag]. It is a [tag]capitalist[/tag] profit-center. It ought not be. Also, what was done to [tag]Jews[/tag] is used by some Jews as an excuse to do evil to others. The [tag]Old Testament[/tag] may say that God gave the land to the Jews, but their God is the God of their imaginations according to [tag]Jesus[/tag]. Jesus made clear that the real God does not countenance destroying the world or mass murder for land. Why people can't read and comprehend that clear and plain message in the words of Jesus is what Jesus calls amazing. Does anyone want to debate that? You'll lose before you begin, just like Satan.

RE wants people formerly in the highest political and governmental positions in the U.S. to be held to account NOW, just as Donna points out in her post that Nazis who ran the torture and [tag]execution[/tag] system in the camp she visited were held to account and subjected to the final penalty: The [tag]death penalty[/tag]. I don't say that either Donna or RE is in favor of putting anyone to death. Jesus certainly would not pull that lever ever. They'll have to speak for themselves on that issue.

Some people no doubt believe that it is all just a matter of degree. The U.S. hasn't overtly exterminated millions — or has it by other means? I won't delve into that right now other than to say that the U.S. has killed many millions. Those in power in the U.S. justify it. The victor writes history. History isn't over yet though. I disagree with them and so does [tag]Jesus Christ[/tag]. It is written.

RE, I believe, knows what a [tag]slippery slope[/tag] the [tag]neoconservative[/tag] and false-hearted [tag]Zionists[/tag] have introduced back into the American culture. [tag]Cruel and unusual punishment[/tag], such as [tag]water dunking[/tag] for one, was deemed beneath America and illegal.

I actually believed when I was a youth that real true Americans don't countenance torture.

  • Cops using [tag]blackjacks[/tag] and [tag]bright lights[/tag] to beat out and sweat out [tag]confessions[/tag] was roundly condemned.
  • The Nazi [tag]barbarism[/tag] was roundly condemned.
  • The [tag]cross[/tag], nails (spikes), [tag]crown of thorns[/tag], [tag]whipping[/tag], etc., of Jesus before his execution was known without doubt to have been the practice of the most diabolical of forces.

So, what's to debate really? That torture works? What does it do? What does it accomplish? Does it result in [tag]righteousness[/tag]? Can anyone short of God guarantee that absolutely no innocent or undeserving soul will be tortured by agents in government's employ? No, they cannot.

I hate people who are so dishonest as to even entertain for a moment that torture is good in any way, shape, or form. Oh, you say. A Christian isn't to hate anyone. Wrong. We know them by their rotten fruit. We are to hate rotten fruit, rotten results. Jesus says to love your enemies and to do good to them who curse you and persecute you. Yes, he says that and he is right. This is why there is a [tag]love/hate relationship[/tag] until evil is gone — banished from every heart with all it implies. If you don't understand that, if you cannot comprehend what I've written here, don't blame me or be glad. Think until you get it.

There is [tag]forgiveness[/tag] where there is [tag]mercy[/tag]. That's a huge statement. It applies to and from everyone.

Listen up. You torture, you aren't forgiven until you stop, [tag]turn[/tag], [tag]repent[/tag], [tag]atone[/tag], and don't [tag]backslide[/tag]. This is how it is. If you don't like it, too bad.

I love it. It calls me, compels me, to weed out evil within. Many people don't want to do that for all sorts of reasons. Few there be that find it (the [tag]strait gate[/tag] and [tag]narrow way[/tag]), as Jesus says. However, it will not always be so on this Earth. He says that too. I agree, completely.


The following should appear at the end of every post:

According to the IRS, "Know the law: Avoid political campaign intervention":

Tax-exempt section 501(c)(3) organizations like churches, universities, and hospitals must follow the law regarding political campaigns. Unfortunately, some don't know the law.

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited from participating in any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. The prohibition applies to campaigns at the federal, state and local level.

Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes. Section 501(c)(3) private foundations are subject to additional restrictions.

Political Campaign Intervention

Political campaign intervention includes any activities that favor or oppose one or more candidates for public office. The prohibition extends beyond candidate endorsements.

Contributions to political campaign funds, public statements of support or opposition (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of an organization, and the distribution of materials prepared by others that support or oppose any candidate for public office all violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention.

Factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:

  • Whether the statement identifies one or more candidates for a given public office
  • Whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval of one or more candidates' positions and/or actions
  • Whether the statement is delivered close in time to the election
  • Whether the statement makes reference to voting or an election
  • Whether the issue addressed distinguishes candidates for a given office

Many religious organizations believe, as we do, that the above constitutes a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That said, we make the following absolutely clear here:

  • The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project not only do not endorse any candidate for any secular office, we say that Christianity forbids voting in such elections.
  • Furthermore, when we discuss any public-office holder's position, policy, action or inaction, we definitely are not encouraging anyone to vote for that office holder's position.
  • We are not trying to influence secular elections but rather want people to come out from that entire fallen system.
  • When we analyze or discuss what is termed "public policy," we do it entirely from a theological standpoint with an eye to educating professing Christians and those to whom we are openly always proselytizing to convert to authentic Christianity.
  • It is impossible for us to fully evangelize and proselytize without directly discussing the pros and cons of public policy and the positions of secular-office holders, hence the unconstitutionality of the IRS code on the matter.
  • We are not rich and wouldn't be looking for a fight regardless. What we cannot do is compromise our faith (which seeks to harm nobody, quite the contrary).
  • We render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. We render unto God what is God's.
  • When Caesar says to us that unless we shut up about the unrighteousness of Caesar's policies and practices, we will lose the ability of people who donate to us to declare their donations as deductions on their federal and state income-tax returns, we say to Caesar that we cannot shut up while exercising our religion in a very reasonable way.
  • We consider the IRS code on this matter as deliberate economic duress (a form of coercion) and a direct attempt by the federal government to censor dissenting, free political and religious speech.
  • It's not freedom of religion if they tax it.

And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. (Matthew 17:24-26)

  • Subscribe

  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
    This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.
    • Peace and Blessings Pastor Tom,

      The way the torture memos read, it seemed like business as usual for the bloody us administration.

      I highly disagree with that policy or stance.

      I'm not for starting a war, but I'm certainly not going to let someone slap me and walk away without at least a blackeye.

      Personally, I do believe that we should return our Fist to the other cheek. it might have saved Jesus, if he adopted Bob Marley's Stance and Learned to Run Away and Fight the Second Day when his Posse was with him.

      my motto is Take a Machine Gun to a Knife Fight and You'll Be Ready from a safe distance. but take a spray bottle of tabasco and draino and you can get right into the action.

      Oh Yeah,,

      So as a Little Incentive We're Letting the Prez Know - We're In It To Wrap it Up.

      Tomorrow 04/27/09 we are blogging on the whole mess with Darfur and why Mr. Obama needs to turn his attention there; instead of Afghanistan.

      The Post includes a podcast we produced about the Darfur Problem in 2004 - yes we've been working on this issue for a long time and we're anxious to see it wrapped up.

      it's clear to us Tom, that the world is tired of war, and we need to wrap it up.



      • Well RE,

        You're saying Jesus was wrong. You can't be a Christian while believing Jesus was or is wrong. You have to know this.

        There was a time when I would have jumped between a pacifist and bully and beat the hell out of the bully. That seems to be where you still are. The reason I would have done that is because I was not strong enough not to do it.

        You see, the pacifist, while appreciating that the defender is not as wicked as the attacker, the pacifist would rather the defender be a pacifist right next to him. He would rather the attacker come to his senses too. That's the whole point.

        Violence is not the right way to handle conflict resolution. Violence only sets up violence. The fire of violence is put out with water. Violent fire to fight violent fire burns everything to nothing. Of course, that's the prophecy.

        The violent will destroy themselves, attacker and defender alike, leaving the proverbial meek who are actually stronger in their convictions and in holding to the moral high ground.

        So, the torture needs to end and the wars need to end but peace (total peace) is the one and only path to bring that about. The war to end all wars is the one that is waged in the heart to soften it to the point where the temptation to do violence is overcome by the willingness to self-sacrifice for the sake of others. It's what Jesus did when he went to the cross. He could have avoided it if he had been a lesser soul. His truth though prevented him from doing the wrong thing, which was fight back to save his flesh while sacrificing the full-context message that is the real peace and the real love.

        Reconsider RE. Reconsider.



    • I find the first paragraph very ironic actually... well, we all have our views and whatever it is, we think we are all respectively correct which makes us all fight against each other.. The wisdom... so much of it.. can really torn us apart and to pieces.