I've recently had a back and forth with a pro-homosexuality advocate on the "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX)" Facebook Page. Here's my most recent reply to him on Facebook this early morning.

For some reason, Facebook has decided to not notify me of comments on this thread. It's happened to me before a number of times with Groups (now Pages). Fully expecting some additional commentary, I returned manually.

Andrew, some things don't need citations. There is no way that all the "authorization" (rising in the general population that began largely with homosexuals pressing their case with the very, very young a few decades ago and often without the knowledge of, and obviously without the consent of, the parents of those young children) has not led to increased experimentation, etc., among the youth. If you need a "scientific" study to confirm it, you are certainly someone I know should not be in the position of making policy before such "studies" have been concluded. Of course, there are countervailing forces arrayed against that "authorization" (non-violent tolerance cum hyper pro-homosexual proselytizing). It is certainly not "bad form" to state what ought to be obvious.

As for your appeal to the Bible above as the only resource in the way you meant it, even when the Bible was unknown to a culture, the harmful aftereffects of especially the full-blown homosexual act were identified (not by all). Here again, I don't need to cite some other "authority." There is a great deal of "scientific" and medical evidence clearly showing the harmfulness of it, but we can't wait upon the powers that be to undertake further studies where the methodology and interpretation are done in a finally conclusive way. The system of those powers is not bent toward "discovering" the objective and absolute truth. There is a built-in general bias in favor of greater and greater self-licensing (selfish or self-centered licensing; anti-whole or anti-wholesome in the Christian sense).

This is a religious, spiritual, even philosophical discussion. What rises or falls in terms of substantiation is not for you to set. You appear to have general difficulty with the self-evident.

The whole debate over homosexuality has exactly to do with societally what we are teaching our children. If it doesn't matter, why have the homosexuals advocated so adamantly to be allowed to begin instructing/indoctrinating even the youngest of the young? Why are there any rules? There are rules to prevent behavior and to help to mold and form the minds and characters of individuals and the greater society, as those individuals go to comprising it. Rules can be used for good or ill.

For all sorts of reasons, people find the Bible contradictory. The Bible contains arguments within. The debates are there to enlighten. The trains of thought are not "easy" to follow. This partly goes to why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it": the strait and narrow. If you are looking for answers to the questions in your mind about all of this, you can't remain "vaguely aware of what Jesus said." You have to dig in. The fact that you are only "vaguely aware" has very much to do with why there isn't sufficient common language between us that I can impart to you why the selfishness inherent in homosexuality is always a problem that needs to be overcome. This does not mean that everyone who claims Christianity has the same "understanding." They don't. What you need to do is determine to come to know the mind of Jesus Christ if you want the answers to your questions answered.

You are right that Jesus's sayings confuse people. His words are a sorting process. The softness of your heart will determine. If you hold out for selfishness in the end, you won't enter in. God is wholeness. Being selfish (that is apart from God's righteousness) is death. The connotations of all the various words are throwing you only because you haven't gone in to partake. You have thus far stood off and pondered, so you aren't seeing the details and are misconstruing the big picture. This answers your question about the law and every jot and tittle. The law is enlightenment. To know Jesus's words, one can't erase the scriptures or the Mosaic Law. One learns the higher law by the refinement of the lesser. Hypocrisy is dross. Jesus was and is greater than Moses. The "fulfillment" for you is when you see all of this and act in accordance.

A good example of your difficulty with the language is with "culture" and now "family." Jesus asked rhetorically who is mother and brothers and sisters were. He gave the answer. I won't give it to you here because you need to seek it for the sake of your soul and the sake of the souls around you and with whom you interact, including on the Internet. "Israel" is a case in point. It is Jacob, but it is the twelve tribes. It is a nation. You are right that many would agree with your use of the terms. However, "few there be...." The Mayans were of a father as the Israelites were of Jacob versus his half brother. Israel also means those who joined themselves. The same applies to Christ and of course, God, and unfortunately for those to whom it applies, Satan.

You wrote, "As for the term "natural", the religious and the pro-homosexuals are not applying the same understanding of the term. Most religious persons view it as the manifestation of a negative spirit. I'm not quite following you here. If "natural" is a "bad thing" in some contexts in scripture, then how does the argument "homosexuality is bad because it is unnatural" hold?"

Your confusion there is more understandable than elsewhere. It does require greater clarity from me. Read "Most religious persons view it as the manifestation of a negative spirit" as "Most religious persons view homosexuality as the manifestation of a negative spirit." That should clear it up for you. Your question though points to your missing how to apply different connotations to different overall contexts. This is the single-most point at which Jesus is separated off from "humanity" through no fault of his. Re-read your question: "If 'natural' is a 'bad thing' in some contexts in scripture, then how does the argument 'homosexuality is bad because it is unnatural' hold?" If you can sort out your own confusion here, your mind will begin the process of being able to grasp more and more of Jesus's sayings and doings. Your question admits to two different contexts and connotations where your mind wants to insist upon one connotation. This is why so many people couldn't, and still can't, begin to understand Jesus's parables, let alone even his interpretations openly revealed in scripture that he shared with his closest disciples.

You really need to read the Gospels with the view that you are ignorant of the language of the revelation of Jesus. Suspend your being stuck at every term. Read through and return. You have watched movies over again and seen things in subsequent viewings that you hadn't noticed before. You've been told about the "hidden" meanings in some. There's a huge body of work that seeks to do the same concerning the Bible. All of it isn't correct, but you won't know what's what regardless without delving in.

The meanings of "righteousness" and "wholesomeness" cannot be given to you with your grasping them without prerequisites on your part. You want a Ph.D. without having taken a 101 course. I'm not saying that you can't begin to get it quite quickly. I'm also not saying that I disbelieve in what is called "the priesthood of all believers." This though comes back to the relative and absolute hardness of your heart. You're asking me what is righteousness. Jesus's New Commandment is the "nut shell" answer. It's also the answer to wholesomeness. Love is the answer.

Of course, there are those who apply connotations to "love" that are false-hearted. Homosexuals say they "love" the object of their sexual attraction. In Jesus's New-Commandment definition of love, they don't. You don't love when you harm, and you harm (ultimately harm) when you engage in performing sexual acts on the same sex. How and why this is the case is for you to discover or to have revealed to you by virtue of your doing what I've said that is asking, seeking, and knocking.

You have been given a huge opportunity here in this forum. It is a spiritual event.

As for your statement about Johnny, if you continue holding to your current view, you will have no hope of entering the kingdom of God. You are asking people to have always been as perfect as God. There is no forgiveness or even mercy in your statement about Johnny. How will you receive when your standard is begrudging? I have to tell you that there are convicted pedophiles working in schools right now who were convicted by their own hearts in private consultation with God who healed them such that they are now more trustworthy than those who would have stoned them to death. If you want a citation, I refer you directly to God. Ask.

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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