David Cameron concerning Gaza, etc.: Let's see the signs of the times

The following are my comments I've made on Facebook regarding the recent remarks by David Cameron concerning Gaza, etc.

I made these comments on this thread: concerning this article: http://news.antiwar.com/2010/07/27/outrage-as-cameron-slams-gaza-blockade/

What's strong, Betty, is you. We who are not letting up have brought this about. What Cameron is doing is reading the shifting poll numbers. Keep it up. Don't be pessimistic. Now is the time to be saying that the Wall will come tumbling down, just as Apartheid fell.

Daniel said:

Wow.... Now that's blind faith....

I replied:

Blind guides strain on gnats but swallow camels.

That idea is straight from Jesus. In this context, it means that the blind (as in blind faith) try mightily to avoid the little ritualistic sins while failing to see or to act appropriately concerning the Big Lies. My point here is that many people are not seeing the forest for the trees. The climate has changed. The signs of the times have changed. The Zionists are no longer able to act with impunity. Mark it!

Then Toirleach made the following comment after several others had commented in between:

David Cameron's remarks again were very unhelpful back in Ireland shortly before he became PM. he stated that if elected he would keep the north of Ireland at the heart of the UK. and on a similar par with Scotland and wales when pressed on the good Friday agreement at that time, he said he would honour international agreements, what century David regarding the good Friday agreement, a few short weeks later William haig arrived in the north of Ireland and reinforced what David had said again that Ireland or the north of would be kept at the heart of the UK under a Torie Government, unhelpful to say the least. STUPID

and this:

Cameron wants to camouflage the warsaw gettho that is gaza the prison the blockade, not smash it. free gaza feed the people give them there own country, the UN. should have no problem achiveing a majority vote on these issues. make peace not war. the UN must take a vote and help these people now.

I replied:

There's another way of looking at it. When the US entered into WWII, it was pumping out anti-Nazi, anti-ethnic bigotry propaganda. After the war, it was faced with its hypocrisy.

So, if Cameron speaks out against the Zionists and we all support that he did it, the Zionists will be that much more weakened and Cameron will end up being faced with whatever double-standards remain in his mind and policies and practices in his "government."

Therefore, make hay while the Sun is shining. Point out the hypocrisies by all means, but let's make sure we don't have any ourselves in the process.

The Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and otherwise) and the Jews ought to be able to live in relative peace in Canaan. The same should hold for the religious and secular in Northern Ireland and everywhere else. This only scratches the surface of this thinking.

I'm not twisting arms for everyone to see it my way, that is my Christianity, but rather saying as someone who doesn't want his arm twisted, I don't want to do it to others regardless.

Arye wrote:

America uses the same hierarchy of value too. An American life is worth more than any other. A Christian life more than a Muslim. A cop's life is worth more than a criminal. Etc.

ALL life is sacred.

I replied:

There was a "value" difference between the two criminals who were crucified on either side of Jesus. All life is as sacred as that life. Was there no difference in sacredness? I say there was. The same holds today.

At the same time, it wasn't Jesus who put either of those criminals on their crosses, nor would he have passed sentence on them the way the Roman Empire and Jews there did. He did forgive the ignorant afterall.

This all represents a true paradox. It is reconcilable. These are "hard" questions for many, but we are confronted by the same questions with Cameron's statements and with all the statements made for or against.

Toirleach replied:

Tom there will always be another way of looking at it and you are right, but lets try look at this thru the eyes of a young palestinian sentence to life in prison including poverty and hunger hard labour and war, no release date and he committed no crime. wath must he think of the UN and all other world leaders, the whole world must help these people now. warsaw gettho is fine by me.

My question:

What do you mean when you say, "warsaw gettho is fine by me"?

Toirleach:

my name for gaza

My reply:

Well, Toirleach, you did write, "warsaw gettho that is gaza" above. I know people use it that way, and I think it's apt. However, the Warsaw Ghetto in the minds of those who would wipe out all Israeli Jews right now to save a single Palestinian is something we also mustn't forget.

Not all Israeli Jews are in favor of what has happened. There are the Refuseniks and the Shministim and many others. I'm not for the J Street model of Zionists who are simply willing to settle on the Green Line perhaps while ignoring the right of return and full, equal, political rights regardless of religion or ethnicity. I'm outside the system because I don't believe in coercive democracy but rather consensus on righteousness. It's idealism, and I have no problem with that. The global standards are way too low across-the-board.

The point of my comments here has been to put forth that while I don't believe Obama or Cameron on the whole, I am saying that when they say anything favorable to even easing the plight of the Palestinians, that's because of the change in public opinion that has changed on account of the voices that don't let up in the face of Zionist false-propaganda and/or defeatist pessimism on the part of many. Yes, the world needs to help now. That's always the case concerning every problem.

When Cameron opens his mouth the way he has, he's opened the door wider for voices against Zionism to carry. That's why the Zionists are so alarmed. Don't fall for the trick-of-mind that tells you that short of an overnight dramatic shift that would see the UN marching into Gaza with rules of engagement allowing them to kill Jews (IDF), any and all who fight the liberation, there's nothing good in each little crack in the Wall created by the incessant hammering of the people, such as what is happening right here in this thread.

The Zionists are watching as much of everything as they can manage. They are now on the defensive. They have never been there before (it's only been a matter of months yet) since 1948. They are reacting, not setting the agenda. Take full advantage of that.

Now that Cameron has said what he has, hold him to it. If he caves into the Zionists or if his gaming of the system stands out, call him on it. Just keep it up.

The Free Gaza Movement is growing, not shrinking. The Zionists will become desperate and do more stupid things, but that's why they have already lost. They are selfish and greedy and land thieves as no other in the "modern" age. Their actions are all the more reprehensible due to their version of history that they call the Holocaust (with a capital H) and that they have done much of their dirtiest work after that timeframe. The abused, no matter how much in actuality versus made-up history (such as soap from the fat of Jews, etc.), have become the abusers. It's an illness that should not be rewarded or coddled or excused or allowed to have its way. It needs curing, not masking of symptoms.

Now, if that sounds like holocaust denial, it's not. Bad things went on under the Nazis. There are questions though that have been raised that have not been properly addressed. It's much as with all the false-flag operations down through history, many of which are well-documented, such as the Gulf of Tonkin. Just look at all the utterly stupid lies surrounding the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty too. There has been open testimony to the world by Israeli Jews who were there that Israel knew at the time of the attack that it was attacking a US ship. Yet, that part of the history is covered over by the neocons and Zionists because once the pattern of lies starts being exposed, as with Ilan Pappe's work and the work of other of the Revisionists showing that the Zionists were terrorist and very bloody ethnic cleansers, the Zionist know that it is only a matter of time before they will not be allowed to have their utterly racist, supremacist, fascist regime they call the Jewish State. Sure, they treat each other well. Didn't the Nazis get along well with each other? Didn't they live it up together? Of course they did.

Where else in the world is the US or the EU saying that a people may have a nation-state where a particular ethnic group and/or religion may exclude the indigenous people from returning after war or ethnic cleansing and may also have second-class citizens on account of ethnicity and/or religion? Sure, the US and EU and other say one thing and do another, but that's what we're here to refute and rebuke because it's the right thing to do and if enough people join in, we prevail. That's what brought down Apartheid South Africa. If you don't believe it, just ask them. It happened but wouldn't have if we had all been looking for the UN to march in ready to fight the certain batch of South African Whites. It happened in a better way than via more violence.

Betty said:

Tom, did you intend to write this: "...However, the Warsaw Ghetto in the minds of those who would wipe out all Israeli Jews right now to save a single Palestinian is something we also mustn't forget." That's not the style of the Palestinians; rather, it is the Israeli Jews trying to wipe out all the Palestinians to allegedly recapture Shilat. But that is not true. Following the withdrawal of the IDF and the illegal Jewish colonists from Gaza, the blockade began. When asked if the withdrawal meant that Israel was now supporting a Palestiniansn State, Dov Weisglas responded that Israel would be applying "formaldehyde" which would end any hope of a Palestinian state; he said that they would not starve to death the Palestinians but rather put them "on a diet."

My reply:

Yes, Betty, I meant to write it but was not aiming it at Hamas or any other Palestinians, per se, but rather had closet and not-so-closeted Nazis in mind, who ride the anti-Zionism movement and in many cases don't like the "stinking Arabs" any more then they like the "stinking Jews" and "Niggers" and "Chinks" and "Gooks" and "Waps" and "Spics" and, well, you get the point.

When they march now, they are careful not to allow any of their members to shout anti-Jew slogans or carry any such signs because they want to become more mainstreamed in public and save their "private" feelings for when they are just in a gathering of their own "kind." However, if they were to get their way, they'd turn on the Arabs and Palestinians who wouldn't knuckle under to their Aryans supremacism just as quickly as the Zionists attack those Arabs and others now, in fact more quickly if they were to have the wherewithal.

So, I'm saying that we mustn't be lulled by the supremacists of any stripe, color, religion, etc.

I'm sure you will agree.

Thank you for asking and for not pre-judging me.

I'm against all racism and ethnic bigotry. I'm ready to allow Jews and Muslims and Hindus, etc., to pray as they want, but I expect them to agree that I may do likewise, as my God isn't exactly who they have in mind. If they don't agree with me on this, then I don't support them in that part of their movement(s). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I should think you wouldn't either.

Toirleach wrote:

The only people been wipe out as i see it are the Palestinians its one thing talking about what people in there minds might or might not do its a whole other ball game when a people are actually been wipe out and a huge part of there country has been turn into a prison and the conditions in that prison are the worst in the world today i think what is actually happening is what we all should concentrate on. and a further attempt on a large scale should be made to send help to these besiege people.

My answer and question:

Toirleach,

Of course help should be sent, and it is being sent. However, the Palestinians are not the only people in the world facing catastrophe. Do you think the Haitians have had it good? Do you think the Iraqis didn't face terrible problems? The people in Fallujah are facing a huge increase in cancers, reportedly higher than were faced in Hiroshima. Let's not forget the children being blown to bits in Afghanistan by US Hellfire Missiles. There are people dying in Somalia and Yemen and in dark sites around the planet.

Do you think the Iranians will do well if the Israelis strike them with US backing? When Iran strikes back, and it would, the US would unleash it's fighter-bombers that are already at another generation from those used against Iraq. Do you think the Venezuelans will fair well if the Columbians backed by the US attack Venezuela? The US is just itching to reassert the Monroe Doctrine and re-denationalize the Venezuelans' oil industry.

Look at the thousands being killed just across the border from the US in Mexico largely due to US trade policies begun in the Clinton era. What do you think is going to happen there? That's were the "virus" scare was tested last year. Don't kid yourself that the US hasn't a huge stockpile of biological weapons. That's something I've been pretty silent about, but it needs to be said here and elsewhere.

Do you think the North Koreans deserve to be pulverized or incinerated?

Look, the North Koreans are homogeneous. Hitting their capital with a nuclear bomb would be a fallout issue, but very few non-North Koreans would be vaporized as a direct result of the particular bombs.

What will happen when some nation sneaks one in on the US mainland? All Hell might break loose. The Russians and Chinese and Indians and Pakistanis and all the other nuclear-weapon nations could be dragged in. Let's not be myopic about Palestine as we work to solve the plight of the Palestinians.

The flotillas have had a huge impact. The land convoys have had a huge impact. It's not going to stop unless the US and Israel can cause too much violence that will distract everyone. The overarching issues will remain however. We have to work on all the problems of the world simultaneously. Solving the Palestinian and especially the Gazan plight will go a long way in that, and that's why it's rightly getting the most attention from many people, including me.

You have yet to agree with the point that the Anti-War, Anti-Colonial, Anti-Imperial, Anti-Occupation Movements need to capitalize on every single thing that is said by Cameron and Obama and everyone else. What part of this are you having a problem with, and why are you not saying, "Yes, that's right" rather than coming across as if what I'm saying is not a proper strategy?

What exactly do you expect the world to do, bomb Israel into submission? There are Palestinians in Israel who would die. Also, Israel has nuclear weapons and intercontinental-missile capabilities and nuclear-weapon carrying submarines that can launch from underwater off nearly any coastline. In addition, there are numerous Israel-Firsters in the US sitting at command-and-control panels. That's not even the half of it. If you think the Israelis wouldn't pull a Masada, you don't get it.

Let's be real. The way to win is through global public opinion, which is shifting dramatically. Please stop diminishing the exact tactics that ended Apartheid South Africa. If that has not been your view you've been expressing here, please say so in no uncertain terms.

Toirleach comment:

can we not just stay on subject regarding the palestinian people. tom yes you are the right haitians and the iraqis were and are still in dire straights for me today the subject is about feeding the palestinians and smashing the blockade and giveing them there own country.

My answer:

No, Toirleach, we can't just talk about one subject. Cameron was in Turkey. Turkey is in NATO. NATO is aligned with the US Empire that has over 800 known military bases in the world and can incinerate the whole planet. If you are a single-issue person, then so be it for you. I certainly hope the rest of the people are not.

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • America provides aid to Israel. Yet, the US sends even more money to the enemies of Israel. How is this not balanced? Should it matter that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and the enemies of Israel are fascist theocracies that deny women and non-Muslims equal rights? Why does this not seem to matter to “Jew-controlled American foreign policy?”

      Those who engage in contemporary anti-Semitism have no details to offer, just antagonistic statements. This is simply a new twist on the old Nazi propaganda. “Jews are mendacious. They control too much. They own too much. They plan world domination.” Strangely, no one can offer any logical way that less than 1% of the world’s population can gain control over everything.

      Israel has been attacked repeatedly in every decade since its inception, in 1948. How would you defend your legal home from suicide bombers and daily rocket attacks? What would you have Israel do, surrender and walk away from their ancestral homeland?

      Since giving Gaza to Palestinians in 2005, more than 4,000 rockets have been launched from that land into Israeli cities and towns, aimed at defenseless Jewish women and children. And people have the chutzpah to call Israel “aggressive.” The world has become difficult to understand. I’m sure that my family thought the same thing, before they were marched into Nazi gas chambers.

      Charles Weinblatt

      Author, Jacob’s Courage
      http://jacobscourage.wordpress.com/

    • Horst Wessel

      The Gaza Strip has been turned into a "concentration camp" by two weeks of Israeli bombardments, said a senior Vatican official.

      Cardinal Renato Martino, the Vatican's justice and peace minister, was quoted by the online Italian daily Il Sussidiario.

      "Let's look at the conditions in Gaza: these increasingly resemble a big concentration camp," said Cardinal Martino.

      • I believe I read that or something extremely similar from the Vatican when it was first released. It's standard language for anti-Zionists. Before Operation Cast Lead, I had written that Gaza was a concentration camp.

        If you're willing, tell me something about yourself. Are you openly anti-Zionist? If not, why not?

        Is Horst Wessel your real name? It used by the Nazis.

    • Horst Wessel

      Wessel is Dutch and German: from a pet form of the personal name Werner.

      German: habitational name from Wessel in Saxony.

      The name Horst is first recorded in the 15th century; it is now quite common throughout the German-speaking world.

      I just report the news.

      • Okay, well, Horst Wessel wrote the Nazi national anthem. Since you are apparently anti-Zionist, I wanted the clarification.

        You didn't answer directly that Horst Wessel is your real name.

        Also, you didn't answer whether you are openly anti-Zionist.

        Please answer those two questions.

        As for revealing anything else about yourself, as you can readily see, I left that as voluntary (at least at that point).

        This site is not for the anonymous or for those who employ pseudonyms. I request real legal names with the exception of commonly recognized nicknames. I always reserve the right to require more. That's my prerogative.

        No offense intended, but the news I can get and do share with my readers.

        So if you wish to continue here, please cooperate; otherwise, I'm not interested.

        Peace, love, and giving and sharing all,

        For: The Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project
        Tom Usher