Flip Side of Gordon Duff's Attacks on Julian Assange: "Assange's Extremist ["Holocaust Denying"] Employees" - Reason Magazine


WIKILEAKS SERIES Information


Birgitta Jonsdottir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgitta_Jonsdottir) just supplied me with this link: Assange's Extremist Employees - Reason Magazine. It nearly floored me. Here's the comment I left her. I figured it's important enough to share here, especially what with everything I've been writing on this issue:

Wow! Thanks for that link, Birgitta. It's the extreme opposite of what Gordon Duff has been writing in terms of Julian's Zionism. Both authors accuse him of being inept, but this last one, Michael C. Moynihan, really pulls no punches in that department.

It's going to take me a while to process it. It's late at night here, so I'll sleep on it.

You have my full support, for whatever that's worth, in your efforts for Iceland to become a safe-haven for freedom of the press. People just have to be able to put their ideas out there.

There are some limits or rules on free speech, such as not yelling fire in a crowded theater; but barring the really dangerous, we need freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

People's hearts have to be the monitor, not some fascist police state.

There are things about the OpenLeaks model that I like, but it's difficult to second-guess Julian Assange after the fact, not having been in his shoes at the time.

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • Tony Ryals

      Gordon Duff admits CIA DIA George Tenet connection

      http://twincities.indymedia.org/2010/dec/julian-a...

      Julian Assange,Wikileaks:Veterans Today Editor Gordon Duff is A CIA,George Tenet Prostitute,So is Agora Inc.'s Lila Rajiva

      By Tony Ryals

      ''As for CIA connections..the entire idea is a joke. I had George Tenet on speed dial and have had for years. He is the cousin of one of my best friends.''-Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

      No matter what one thinks of Julian Assange and Wikileaks he and it could in no way be more evil than ex CIA Chief George Tenet who helped W Bush and Dick Cheny et.al. to start their mass murder and probable radioactive nuclear poisoning of Iraq,the or a major 'cradle of agriculture and civilization.

      So when Veterans Today editor Gordon Duff bragged about knowing the scumbag and at the same time he told me that Agora Inc or CIA(same difference) connected Lila Rajiva was joining Veterans Today as a ha journalist even though he had just previously told me she was 'gone',I almost barfed. In a real country of law this Indian foreign national would be facing plenty of jail time for her involvement with the stock fraud money launderers and murder suspects of Agora Inc who not only employ scumbags like CIA 'economist' Mark Skousen who touted or promoted over the

      internet to sell worthless shares of the CIA's In-Q-Tel penny stock fraud called Ionatron that claimed-lyed about having technology to remove improvised explosive devices from roads of Iraq and Afghanistan.

      Veterans Today has been one of the biggest critics of Julian Assange

      and Wikileaks but somehing's not right,I mean correct,about them and

      their connections with U.S. government,CIA and stock fraud money launderers such as with George Tenet's pals at Agora Inc.. Lila Rajiva's employment there is proof enough of that.

      Gordon Duff must have enough on George Tenet to have him convicted of stock fraud at the very least.So why doesn't he ? Probably for the same reason he brings Agora Inc stock fraudster Lila Rajiva to Veterans Today,Gordon Duff is an anti American international money launderer.Or as he prefers to describe himself, an expert in international banking.

      - Tony Ryals

    • Tony Ryals

      There's a lot more about Duff THAT WE DON'T KNOW.I have 'known' Lila Rajiva and Porter Stansberry since 2005 when both separately emailed me to try and get me to back off my complaints re Agora Inc founder James Dale Davidson and a scam called Endovasc that fraudulently claimed its share price collpased due to 'naked short selling' rather than because it was an illegal pump and dump protected by the U.S.government and stealing investors' money for their offshore accounts.

      And if I thought Rajiva was bad now comes Gilad Atzmon as a Veterans Today writer who appears to be part of the same family as Menachem Atzmon of ICTS International of Loan Airport Boston 9/11/01 infamy.! I don't have to tell you about Menachem Atzmon do I ? Just google my name tony ryals with his or his name with Christopher Bollyn or Barry Chasmish.

      Very very strange my friend.Also big VT hero O'Keefe of the Palestine boat flotilla is now under investigation by Greek authorities for a ship or boat knapping in Greece for purpose of taking it to Gaza.

      Are Veterans Today folks agent provacateurs ?

      Note Lie-la Rajiva is always self censoring her own blog.The link you provide above don't work.

      However if you scroll down a couple of blogs from her last post you wll find a message from Gordon Duff who asks her to keep attacking me.Note

      I believe Bud Burrell who lies about and threatens me on thesanitycheck.com

      is part of the 'naked short selling' liars Lie-la Rajiva is part of and I believe Gordon Duff is as well and knows and condones Burrell's threats and lies about me.

      • Tony,

        The fact that Gilad shares the same last name with Menachem should not be taken as necessarily indicating anything about Gilad. No doubt, Gilad would know of Menachem and view Menachem from Gilad's "Jewish" vantage point. Other than that, I would suggest that you refrain from raising suspicions based solely upon same last names and associations with Veterans Today. Everyone writing things that are posted on Veterans Today as official authors there does not have to agree with everything Gordon Duff thinks or writes.

        I'm not following your point in raising Ken O'Keefe here. You need to spell things out rather than assume so much of your readers. Sometimes not spelling things out can be done deliberately as a high-literary device, but that doesn't appear to be what you're doing here.

        Make the connection between whatever your point has been and raising the specter of Veterans Today as a provocateur: Provoking whom, how, and to do what exactly?

        The link works, but your point is that the post was deleted. As of the time of this comment reply to you, it is still available via Google cache if you care to make a screen shot so you can provide a before and after to confirm that she is ducking around. Why she would have posted it only to take it down so quickly is rather indicative of helter-skelter thinking, especially if she still left it up elsewhere on her blog, as you've said she has.

        If she watches her traffic logs and has seen traffic from here to there, she may simply want to break people's interest in using this site as a source. As has been made clear elsewhere, she fancies herself a psychological expert.

        This is not to say that I have come to the conclusion that you are characterizing everything correctly. I'm having difficulty attempting to follow your trains of thought (a criticism she too has leveled at you, I might add). I didn't know you from Adam until you posted here, and I have zero dogs in the "financial-scheming" fight (in principle, I'm against all "capitalist" investing); so perhaps you should step back and regroup a bit.

        As I suggested to you earlier, reduce your story to something manageable and chronological; otherwise, I must tell you, you'll never gain a wide audience. It's hard enough to get alternative news in front of people with manageable, chronological narratives.

        I trust you will not take this in the spirit of offense but rather wise advice.

        I can deal with rambling a bit and having to read between the lines. I write that way myself -- plenty; but you really need to hone your story. I have no idea of what was done to you.

        Answer the who, what, where, when, and why concerning your having been defrauded. Post that somewhere, and supply the link. Otherwise, I really can't see any point in your continuing to post comments here.

    • Tony Ryals

      The following email from Gordon Duff was posted then removed from Lie-LA Rajiva's mindbodypolitic

      dot con site.:

      http://mindbodypolitic.com/2010/12/17/gordon-duff...

      Gordon Duff: Keep On Attacking Us, Shills & Stalkers

      December 17, 2010

      Posted in: Uncategorized

      Subject: Re: Lila Rajiva

      From: Gpduf@aol.com

      Date: Fri, December 17, 2010 7:56 am

      To: lilarajiva@mindbodypolitic.com

      Priority: Normal

      Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version | Download this as a file

      Lila

      Going there and reading this is a waste of time. So is worrying about

      credibility. I get dozens of attacks a day....the more I am attacked, the

      more I am followed.

      Last month I had over 6 million readers. 95% were favorable. 5% wanted

      me dead.

      If Ryals starts accusing me of things, stock fraud or secretly working for

      the government, websites that carry it will suffer credibility problems.

      Ryals will destroy Indymedia.

      I have an iron clad reputation that goes back decades.

      As for what that reputation is....I am known to be me.

      Nothing more.

      I pray, every day, for people to attack me. Then people defend me.....and

      I become Julian Assange.

      We should be paying Tony. He is helping you. Without him, you would be

      less controversial. Encourage him. Push him. Make fun of him.

      g

      No TweetBacks yet. (Be the first to Tweet this post)

    • Tony Ryals

      ''At first I

      was seen as a nice Jew who was badmouthing Israel, which the goyim

      liked.''-Gilad Atzmon

      Using the goyim term is worse than calling an Afican American a '....'

      And I believe the Israeli

      Atzmons hail from Hungary originally,all of them.Same family I believe so why doesn't VT just leave my query up till Gilad can answer as to his relation or lack thereof to Menachem ?! Huh ?!

      -Tony Ryals

      Mr.Usher,

      I already enquired at veteranstoday.con as to whether Gilad Atzmon was related,(as if I needed to because in their mythology they're related as the seed of Abraham,Hee,Hee,if nothing else),and my query was deleted.Go figure.

      How many Atzmon familes do you think there are in Israel who are extreme right wing and related to exteme right wing Zionist thought in Israel ?

      The Haaretz interview of

      Gilad Atzmon describes a family backgroung VERY similar to what I would expect in Menachem Atzmon's formative years.

      Just a coincidence I know

      so I ask and I'm censored.Seeing as 3,000 or so died in WTC 9/11 because of 2 planes that left Logan Airport under Israeli or ICTS and Menachem Atzom's 'protection'and seeing as he is a known stock fraudster operating in and preying on Americans

      with deceased Ezra Harel et.al. and convicted of money laundering in Israel and who also allowed the so-called Islamic 'crotch bomber' to board flight 253 from Amsterdam Schiphol to Detroit just one year ago last night that led the the TSA's draconion and lucrative to certain intersts,Thankgiving X-ray frenzy and sales,etc..

      ¿Capische?

      If you wish to comment about O'Keefe's recent escapade in Greece feel free to do so.My intention in mentioning the incident was to try and help you,as W Bush and Barack Osama like to say,'connect the dots'.

      I just wanted to let you know of the existence of the incident then you could judge the actins of Verans Today writer O'Keefe for yourself.

      -Tony Ryals

      The Guardian: "Gilad Atzmon, a pro-Palestine advocate, gave a talk to students this month, arguing: 'I'm not going to say whether it is right or not to burn down a synagogue, I can see that it is a rational act."

      Gilad Atzmon was born in Tel Aviv in 1963 and grew up in Jerusalem. "It was a regular secular childhood," he says, "with a right-wing Jabotinskyite grandfather. I wasn't ashamed of him, no way. I understood where he was coming from. I understood where I was coming from." -Haaretz

      Gilad Atzmon: Goyim's Organs Are Needed | Atlantic Free Press ...

      8 Aug 2010 ... Gilad Atzmon: Goyim's Organs Are Needed ??? GILAD IS AN ASS NOT FOR HIS CRITICISM OF RABBI'S ENGAGING IN ORGAN SALES, THIS IS INDEED IMMORAL ...
      http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/.../13644-gilad-atzmon-..." target="_blank">www.atlanticfreepress.com/.../13644-gilad-atzmon-...

      • Tony,

        Pay attention, and refrain from the Mafioso crap.

        Many Blacks say "nigger." They say to each other, "sup nigger?" There are all sorts of psychological reasons why the ones who do that do it. A Jew (and Gilad doesn't even like the term "Jew" because, he says, it is now too amorphous), who might say, "sup kike?" would be doing much the same. Now, Gilad is no uncomplicated personality. When he says goyim, try thinking in terms of a double play on words (double entendre). Don't assume you get everything right out of the box.

        By the way, "goyim" is only as offensive as you take it to be. I could "care less" if any Jews think they are better or smarter than I am. The proof is in the pudding, and I'm completely dis-impressed by supremacist thinkers. They never stand up to scrutinizing debate. They wilt because their position is stupid. It's counterproductive.

        Tony, in terms of demonstrating that Gilad is up to no good vis-a-vis his clear anti-Zionism, it wouldn't matter if Gilad and Menachem were son and father. You have to point to more than the use of the term goyim (taken out of context by you) to show a reason to be suspicious of Gilad on the level you are suggesting.

        Look, I'm a Christian. Gilad is not. Now what? Does that mean that everything he says about Zionism is wrong and that he's a closet Zionist?

        Immediate relatives can disagree as much as agree with each other. So, unless you have something to out weigh the side of the scale that says Gilad is a true anti-Zionist, I suggest you refrain from putting wild and extremely weak speculations out on the Internet about him.

        How many Atzmons can dance on the head of a pin, is irrelevant. Okay?

        Oh, and if you're an anti-Jew as in "all Jews" are irredeemable while other ethnicities, etc., are not, then get even more lost than you are already or repent of it. Clear?

        As for Veterans Today deleting your comments or whatever, it doesn't signify much to me. I think they think of you as a gnat that no one of consequence is going to take you seriously.

        Tony, as a rule, I do not do vague. Vague is the exception and only because others are not up to speed on the language of the revelation. So when you bring up Ken O'Keefe, spell it out, which you have not.

        Look again, Gilad's points seem to be lost on you. He speaks and writes from within the contexts he has in mind, which are often not understood by those reading him or hearing him. When he says he can see how to think of burning a synagogue as being a rational act, it then becomes your task to question him in a way that will engender the best answer he can put forward. I am anti war. Burning down other people's places of worship is an act of war.

        Let me explain something that I've never written before. If I were to go to war, it would be total. It would be like the flood. I would take what Moses said and apply it better than Joshua did. He didn't follow the directive to wipe out everything. However, I'm not on Moses' level. I conclude that Jesus is higher than Moses by infinite levels of magnitude.

        Jesus is extremely difficult for people to comprehend because of the hardness of their hearts. Gilad doesn't get Jesus. Concerning Gilad and you, I can only work with what's there.

        What buildings would you burn down? Gilad isn't burning down synagogues. I am, but with a different kind of fire. There is the spiritual synagogue of "Satan," Tony, and that's not saying it all even while it is saying it all. The reason that throws you is what I mentioned above: the language of the revelation. You have to want to learn.

        As for not being ashamed of his grandfather, it's past tense for one. You are too assumptive. You need to ask better questions in your own head. "Shame" is a term of connotations. It is culturally understood. Gilad is using it from his background, not yours.

        Tony, you haven't been helpful. I already know about the neocon/Zionist connections to 9/11.

        So, I've arrived at this point with you: Do the thing I asked of you or don't comment here again. If you refuse to write about your initial complaint such that I can see where you're coming from, if you refuse to identify yourself in connection with your complaints, again, get lost. There is no reason for you to stand off in the shadows attempting to hurl disjointed bombs at Veterans Today and the individuals associated with it. Stand up where the world can see you. Otherwise, you're a weak link in someone else's chain, not mine.

        Gilad puts his real name to his work.

    • Tony Ryals

      My initial complaint about what ? Stock fraud ? It was certainly not about 9/11 at the time,that came later and sort of intermeshed with it.It's so easy to find,it's a complaint about Agora Inc and Charles Schwab,David P Summers and James Dale Davidson,et.al.on ripoffreport..I was so naive I didn't even mention the Ukrainian Israeli Grin brothers' (David,Eugene,Abraham)

      involvement.They have often been in and around

      Austrian-Israeli Martin Schlaff's offshore stock fraud with U.S.penny stocks operations.

      Then there was getting my alias wolfblitzzer0 taken to court in Florida by British Israeli Michael Zwebner and his Air Water Machine penny stock scam when he sued CNN and Wolf Blitzer all because I was complaining on ragingbull.com about his fraud and Israeli PM Ehud Olmert's

      and President Moshe Katsav's involvement using that pseudonym to post with.CNN and Blitzer just wanted to cover it up and keep

      Israeli politicos using U.S.penny stocks for fraud against Americans and offshore money laundering from being exposed.

      And I knew and wrote about ex CIA George Tenet's involvement with penny stocks for money laundering long ago.And his meeting with Lila Rajiva's Agora Inc employers at New Orleans

      in 2004.So when Gordon Duff informed me of his direct dial to Tenet that explained Rajiva's precence at VT pretty much for me.Also Dick Armey among others,who strong armed his fellow Congressmen to exempt ICTS International and others such as Marvin Bush's and Kuwait Al Sabah royal families' Securacom and other from liabilty in their role as 'security' on 9/11/01

      was also at the New Orleans event.

      Oh because you already know everything about 9/11 and because Gordon is a pen pal or facebook pal of yours why didn't you let him know when he was writing about ICTS Intermnational and the Islamic crotch bomber of Christmas 2009 that he had somehow overlooked even mentoning Menachem Atzmon in his sermon on the internet about that one ?

      And of course ICTS International of Gilad Atzmon's relative Menachem Atzmon is also suspect in the London subway and bus bombing of July 7,2005 or 7/7/05. if one was simply a 'jazz musician' and stuck to that and was jewish and just happened to have last name of Atzmon I feel one should and would deserve some privacy as to whether or not their relative was Menachem Atzmon whose incompetence at best led to thousands of deaths in one day in NY and then perhaps over a million after that.But if I blogged and self promoted myself as one whose subject matter was Zionism and even write about destoying synanagogues being even theoretically justifiable or about the London bombing where one of my own relatives was suspect and I promoted myself as somewhat of an authority I'd say that the question of whether MENACHEM Atzmon was my relative or not was very pertanent and valid question.

      Your problem is perhaps you are too 'liberal' on certain ethical and moral issues that I am quite conservative about.Paradoxical isn't it ?

      And paradoxical that GILAD ATZMON whp puts his name to work hasn't noticed and written about that other Atzmon who does the same - it does appear Menachem is the perfect Zionist for his ridicule wouldn't you say ? Why leave it all to me ?

      • Okay Tony, you're trying. I'll give you that. However, I just don't believe you are appreciating how difficult it is to understand what it is you are trying to do.

        Look, Gordon Duff is turning out to be a real ass. He deleted my comments (http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2010/12...) that went right to the heart of his very shoddy journalism. He left the threads but gave himself the last word by deleting my last comment in each. The deletions were designed to leave readers with the insults of me rather than with my comebacks that were exactly on topic, so I sympathize with you on that level.

        I don't know Gilad very well at all. I've had a couple of interactions with him that were not deep. I don't know where you left your question as to whether or not he's related. Well, he's related, but you want to know how closely and then what that might mean if anything in terms of Gilad's core convictions. If you left it on one of Gordon's posts, then he possibly deleted it so that, among other possible reasons, eyebrows wouldn't be raised -- same reason he killed my comments too.

        Perhaps he doesn't check every comment on the site, but we'll see what they do with my other recent comments there on Lila Rajiva's post. http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2010/12...

        Gordon may encourage authors there to delete certain types of comments too -- comments that expose Veterans Today as a fraud bent upon sensationalism rather than substance and right actions.

        You don't try to write a clear chronological story about what happened to you and why you are now rushing about asking so many, what might appear to the uninitiated as strange, questions. Why? Why haven't you written it? What's preventing you? Do you have personal difficulty with sitting down and organizing your thoughts in such a manner? Do you ever outline your thoughts first?

        You see, you write, "My initial complaint about what ? Stock fraud ?" Why are there spaces before the question marks? Why, rather than simply say, "My initial complaint about what ? Stock fraud ?" didn't you answer the who, what, where, when, and why? Do you need someone to interview you in a structured manner before you'll be able to commit it to writing? Obviously, you aren't at a lost for words; but where's the structure to get people to give a damn?

        You say, "It's so easy to find,it's a complaint about Agora Inc and Charles Schwab,David P Summers and James Dale Davidson,et.al.on ripoffreport." Why are there no spaces before your commas? Why, rather than simply tell me this didn't you provide a direct link? More so though, how would I know where you fit in?

        Now, I'm not saying that I want to know your life story. I'm saying that from what I've seen of your approach out there, you're hard to pick up on and follow because of the lack of much structure and perhaps because you're trying to cram in so much rather than expanding on maybe a few things to whet people's appetites.

        I didn't even mention the Ukrainian Israeli Grin brothers' (David,Eugene,Abraham)
        involvement.They have often been in and around
        Austrian-Israeli Martin Schlaff's offshore stock fraud with U.S.penny stocks operations.

        Why aren't you putting spaces after your periods? It's off putting.

        Here though, you've just thrown these names in. I'm aware of penny stock fraud as a concept and so forth, but I've not looked into it in great deal. I'm not into investing. I don't like it. The whole system is one big racket.

        Do you have documentation on all of these things your saying? When you say that Wolf Blitzer "just wanted to cover it up and keep Israeli politicos using U.S.penny stocks for fraud against Americans and offshore money laundering from being exposed," on what are you basing that statement? How do you know that he wasn't focused on stopping others from wildly imagining that he was the one posting rather then someone simply using his name with 0 on the end?

        Why in the world would you use his name though? It makes you look like you're hiding at the least. It doesn't come across as serious.

        Rajiva had a connection with Tenet and Duff has had a connection with Tenet, but why take that as explaining her presence on Veterans Today? It doesn't have to be the reason. It could be less significant than you're thinking. You do know that the world becomes smaller and smaller the more money that's involved, right?

        Oh because you already know everything about 9/11 and because Gordon is a pen pal or facebook pal of yours why didn't you let him know when he was writing about ICTS Intermnational and the Islamic crotch bomber of Christmas 2009 that he had somehow overlooked even mentoning Menachem Atzmon in his sermon on the internet about that one ?

        No one knows everything about 9/11, not even the people who pulled it off. Don't act as if I suggested that I do. I simply said that you hadn't been telling me anything new to me that I have been able to latch onto. Are you expecting me to drop everything and reinvent the wheel while you already have in mind all the interlocking of the financial with 9/11 the false-flag, etc?

        It's fine if people comment and say things I already know because there are other readers who may come here and learn something new to them, but you were saying that you were trying to help me. To help me, I need structure. I need a chronological story and to know what can or can't be substantiated with documentation you have. I need details worked into an overarching chronological story that pieces in the financial aspects. Are you following what I'm saying to you here? Is it lost on you? I can't understand why it's not sinking in.

        Also, I certainly haven't made a habit of reading all of Gordon's posts. He's far from that scintillating. My interest in his site came concerning 9/11 and the Mossad. Aside from that, it's the attack on WikiLeaks that got me interested because the first thing I read of his on it was so illogical.

        Look, I think the ICTS International connection with all the false-flags is definitely reason to rip the place wide open. Okay? I've felt that why since the first time I heard of ICTS years ago. But to jump to conclusions that Gilad is for the false-flags or their cover-ups is just something that requires more than a same last name no matter how small the family.

        But if I blogged and self promoted myself as one whose subject matter was Zionism and even write about destoying synanagogues being even theoretically justifiable or about the London bombing where one of my own relatives was suspect and I promoted myself as somewhat of an authority I'd say that the question of whether MENACHEM Atzmon was my relative or not was very pertanent and valid question.

        Why? I should think at this point what with how far from Zionism Gilad is that it would be more of a simple curiosity rather than a "very pertinent" question.

        I supposed he'd readily answer in passing. He'd probably even elaborate if asked to.

        Your problem is perhaps you are too 'liberal' on certain ethical and moral issues that I am quite conservative about.

        Explain what you mean. What are you conservative about that you think I might be too liberal about?

        paradoxical that GILAD ATZMON whp puts his name to work hasn't noticed and written about that other Atzmon who does the same - it does appear Menachem is the perfect Zionist for his ridicule wouldn't you say ? Why leave it all to me ?

        Are you sure he's never addressed the issue while mentioning Menachem?

        Here's Jeff Gates on Veterans Today:

        Tel Aviv: The Common Source of Terror

        That’s not all. Controlling shares in ICTS are held by Menachem Atzmon, board chairman since 2004. While treasurer of Israel’s long-dominant Likud Party, Atzmon was convicted of campaign finance fraud. His co-treasurer, Ehud Olmert, resigned as Prime Minister in 2008 after being acquitted of fraud amid multiple corruption charges.

        http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/06/crotch-bo...

        So, it's been said there by other than you.

        Menachem Atzmon is mentioned here too: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/08/12/new-911-3...

    • Charles Krafft

      Michael C. Moynihan is the sort of journalist I can't stand. He plays fast and loose with ad hominems like "Anti-Semite," "Holocaust denier " and

      "crackpot" in his over-the-top articles about Israel Shamir, his "disgraced" son and their association with Julian Assange. Am I supposed recoil in horror at the revelation some article by or about Ernst Zundel is linked to Shamir's website? Oh yes, and reel in abject disgust at the whisper there of 'The Blood Libel" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? For shame!

      Tom Usher writes:

      " There are some limits or rules on free speech, such as not yelling fire in a crowded theater; but barring the really dangerous, we need freedom of speech and freedom of the press."

      We certainly do need freedom of the press, freedom from Zionists and gatekeepers like Moynihan who is obviously no champion of this with his hissy fit over the company Assange is keeping. I recall a photo of Assange and Shamir together in Sweden looking at a laptop screen posted somewhere, but i don't recall now if it was at Reason. com which I've written off as the sort of online journalism I can do without.

      People with a variety of aliases and nationalities like Shamir give me pause. But I'm even more skeptical of the motives of well connected journalists like Mr. Moynihan who reach for the "holocaust denier" club to beat a world class performance artist like Ernst Zundel over the head with it. Zundel never denied the holocaust happened. He simply proved in a court of law twice in Toronto that some of BS written about it by molly coddled university professors can't stand up to cross examination.

      • Updated: December 30, 2010:

        Charles,

        As you realize, I didn't include Reason Magazine by way of giving credence to its position vis-a-vis Israel Shamir, who is yet another Facebook friend of mine.

        Israel Shamir and Amitai Etzioni and others mentioned are my Facebook friends because I'm interested in these issues and wish others to become exposed to my terminology and to accept and help the Christian Commons.

        I see you used the term ad hominems. What people actually believe that can be properly labeled is not an illogical thing to call into question their judgment and veracity. Afterall, we don't take a repeated perjurer's word for it. We rather say, his statements are automatically in need of more than his word.

        The concept of ad hominems itself is illogical, but perhaps that's another post. I have dealt with it elsewhere on this blog. The issue is with loading terms and using them that way and with mislabeling others.

        We're dealing everywhere with the issue of the misuse of the term anti-Semite and winning that argument, as you are no doubt aware. Labeling someone who is a Semite an anti-Semite, as in prejudiced against all Semites when clearly that person is not, is plain stupid. We are saying it more and more, and that's sinking into the mass consciousness where it belongs -- where it will overwrite the incorrect "understanding" of the term. The same applies to "holocaust denier" and for exactly the reasons you've expressed. To question anything about the "official" version (a rather deliberately vague idea) is not to necessarily deny the aspects or whole being questioned.

        The holocaust narrative has been forced to change and re-qualify itself over and over due to revelations concerning the narrative. Of course, those who profit most from being victims and others for a variety of reasons, some witting, some unwitting, seek to obscure the changes or to excuse the earlier errors, etc.

        I do not profess to be an "expert" in holocaust revisionism. I have looked into it enough to be satisfied that the case for suspicion is justified and that the "evidence" is not forensically well established. I do believe people were murdered in large numbers. I do not know that they were gassed and cremated in the millions. If they were, and that can be "scientifically" laid to rest by a team of scientists and investigators where the team is large and balanced -- meaning there must be "deniers" or questioners in the same number as otherwise -- then so be it. That's how it ought to be handled. If 11 million people died in concentration camps with 6 million of those being Jews, then establish it to my satisfaction. The level of evidence it would take to satisfy people would vary, but most people know a fair trial when they see one versus railroading.

        I am not afraid of the name Ernst Zundel, even if he might be a closet racist. I am "afraid" of falsehoods on either side. After seeing a number of the points raised by Zundel that were not addressed to my satisfaction, I agree that he should certainly be heard out without the hyperbolic handwringing that usually accompanies the subject.

        That the Polish built or rebuilt at the sites claimed to be gas chambers and crematoria is not helpful: http://www.phdn.org/negation/krema-i.html. Why in the world would anyone do such a thing? It's not only bizarre. It's downright morbid if the gassing and such occurred. To me, such sites should not be touched in such a way. Doing truly scientific, forensic archeology is one thing (intelligent), but even attempting to build or rebuild buildings is incredibly stupid and even desecrating, again, if the Zionist stories of the original buildings are true. Besides, if history was that the buildings were destroyed by the Nazis, why touch them? It's not as if it would have been common war damage to otherwise historically insignificant buildings. What a strange thing to do while there are deniers and/or historical revisionists in the world. It's simply increased suspicions.

        Lastly on this phdn.org article, I didn't check the sources cited by the article; but are those original/prime or second-hand? With such a sensitive subject, one would have to take added precautions not to simply be taking all deniers or all "hoaxers" as necessarily credible sources.

        Anyway, no amount of revision is going to wash Hitler's hands. It might shame many Jews who have knowingly participated in exaggerating and milking the situation, but it won't reverse our understanding of Hitler as warmonger. He really was in love with the idea of the Teutonic warrior sacking Rome. Germany could have gone a different route. Of course, Germany's imperial rival could have also.

        Imperial rivalry is obviously still very much at work in the world, and the Zionists are very much working it and have been from long before WWI. That is covered up by the corporations so top heavy with Zionists and neocons and those who work the system for greedy purposes, not to bring more light.

        What I'm not interested in is another Hitlerian rise. The "master race" is crap, whether German, Jew, Arab, Han, or you name it. Classism is crap too, and capitalism is a huge offender in that regard. Morons become rich feeding into the lowest common denominator and become smugly superior. It's ridiculous.

        As for the Protocols, the Zionists' claim may be correct. There is the possibility though that the Russians stumbled upon something that was the basis for Joly's work and not the other way around. At this point, I lean to that the Protocols are a reworking of a scathing political attack on the fascism of Louis Napoleon. However, fascism is fascism, and the Zionists are fascist with a long-term vision. Afterall, Herzl's vision was very "futuristic" when he proposed it. It took from the 1880-90's to 1948 to get the thing over a major hurdle and from '48 to about 2003 to practically sow it up, but we are taking it apart with truth. What's America's hundred-year vision? The people on Wall Street think in picoseconds to scam their neighbors. Brilliant it's not.

        As for the "gatekeeper" concept, there are those who say others shouldn't be listened to; however, then there are those who pay to silence others out in what is held out to be the non-voluntary system -- we are locked in under the US Constitution by reason of the threat of violence and death if we refuse to knuckle under. It is the latter position I despise. Tell me you think I shouldn't listen to someone, but don't turn people off simply by reason that you have the money to do it.

        I have a real problem with PayPal and Amazon and VISA Europe and the others that went along with cutting off WikiLeaks. If you look at the recent New York Times editorial and what the World Socialist Web Site had to say about it, you'll see what I mean.

    • Tony Ryalls

      I was looking for Gordon Duff's mention of Menachem Atzmon whose name to me is synonymous with ICTS in his articles re flight 253 earlier this year.Gordon who is a presumed expert in international banking should know of all the stock frauds Menachem has been involved with over decades.....Still I have written I presume around 200 articles-posts re 9/11

      and stock fraud.

      I couldn't begin to summarize.Just google 'securacon icts international' and it's just about all my posts

      with those two entities or someone reposting.

      Search 'asra nomani daniel pearl tony ryals'

      or even add icts international richard reid' to see an ICTS International connection to Daniel Pearl's death in Pakistan.

      I have written about ex CIA Director James Woolsey's partner in stock fraud,Mansoor Ijaz and how his advise cost Pearl his head.

      My subject material has been a bit too much to summarise all I can say is it started with the biotech penny stock scam

      Endovasc with its Stanford University connection and went on to 9/11 in my writing and research.

      Sometimes I'm on a role sometimes I stutter as I try to keep going.

      You'd have to search and read 'wolf blitzer ehud olmert air water corp' stuff I wrote but I certainly don't care if you do or not.

      And yes I believe in light of all the time CNN and Wolf Blitzer have to NOT report the news that they would not even report a $100 million litigation against them.And in case you art naive above all power to believe,it is almost a rule that one does not use their real name on the penny stock message boards even if they wnted too !Of course I didn't post tony

      ryals.In fact both ragingbull and yahoo have removed my posts and closed and stolen my email MANY TIMES over the time I have posted warning about fraud on their message boards.It is you and Lila who pretend that posting on penny stock message boards is always done with your real name.And Lila who probably has routed some penny stock for Agora in her line of work would probably have used an alias.

      Anyway to me Gilad's relation to Menachem is important and like I said if he didn't post comments re Israeli politics and even the London bombing his relative Menachem is also a suspect in and not even mention this relation ever and he hasn't ...that's outrageous to me and that's my point about you being more 'liberal'.

      I am not very tolerant about people who have ties to 9/11 and hide them.

      If you try to find any statement from Gilad Atzmon re his relative Menachem and his money laundering and the deaths he is responsible for you will not find a peep out of Gilad and it may or not be coincidence that Gordon Duff's ICTS articles don't mention Menachem either.

      Oh you can find my writing on the catholic church and aristotle's four elements on malta.

      indymedia.org and just by doing a pope's misconceptions' search.

      It's come to irk me that

      'men' like Duff's pal ex CIA Director Tenet and that killer of catholics,Ollie North, are members of Knights of Malta. If the present pope benedict XVI doesn't want to appear an unreformed nazi soldiers maybe he should clean up the nasty mass murderers,arms and drug traffickers and money launderers that comprise the bulk of what passes for 'the knights of malta'.

      • Tony,

        It has now become clear to me that the glimmer of effort I thought I saw was at best a match someone struck that quickly burned out and he has no more matches.

        Gordon Duff says he's an international banking expert but hasn't written about Menachem Atzmon. Look, 9/11 is huge. You know that. Menachem Atzmon is one person out of tens of thousands involved. Gates wrote about him, and it's on Veterans Today.

        You can pick anyplace concerning 9/11 and start following trails that will lead all over to others. Menachem Atzmon will come up eventually.

        Most people aren't interested in exposing Gilad Atzmon as a closet Zionist because they don't see anything to indicate that he's not what he says he is. Look, many people probably view him as a current day Benjamin Freedman-plus.

        You say you've written around 200 articles/posts regarding 9/11 and stock fraud that you couldn't begin to summarize. That's your problem. That's why people aren't listening to you for long or acting on your efforts.

        Telling people to Google something is fine when hyperlinks aren't available or occasionally for other reasons, but to do it as a rule is not conducive to enlisting help. It puts people off. I already knew about ICTS and Securacom (not Securacon). Most people who looked into 9/11 for very long already know.

        You want everyone to become breathless because Gilad's last name is Atzmon? Come on. That's not a smoking gun. You posed a question on Veterans Today about it, and, as Gordon did with me too, he or they deleted your comment. Of course, Gordon doesn't want people questioning his new author in that way, but it could be out of Gordon's shortsighted greed rather than he's afraid you may have a point. Gordon's not very bright. He's shown that in his approach to my blog posts. He's incapable of critical, intelligent debate.

        Look Tony, I don't know what physical or mental issue(s) you're dealing with, but I asked you about commas and spaces. Lot's of times, you don't bother with capitalization either. I find reading through that tedious. It's just the way it is, and I know I'm not the only person who finds it so. I've informed you, so that you might do something about it. You though are not only ignoring it, you're being what can only be called insulting to one who has let you post long comments without censoring you.

        Here you are posting comments because you want people to help, but you turn around and say, "You'd have to search and read 'wolf blitzer ehud olmert air water corp' stuff I wrote but I certainly don't care if you do or not." If you don't care, what are you doing?

        And in case you art naive above all power to believe,it is almost a rule that one does not use their real name on the penny stock message boards even if they wnted too !Of course I didn't post tony
        ryals.In fact both ragingbull and yahoo have removed my posts and closed and stolen my email MANY TIMES over the time I have posted warning about fraud on their message boards.

        It is not naive to ask you why you picked the user name you did, and it's offensive the way you have come back at me simply because I think your choice of user name raises questions about your mentality. It is not naive to suggest that people do use their real names and appear more credible as a result.

        "It is you and Lila who pretend that posting on penny stock message boards is always done with your real name." Now that's a ridiculous thing to attribute to me. I have never said any such thing.

        The rest of what you wrote with the exception of the Roman Catholic aspect is simply redundant, and I don't feel the need to cover it yet again.

        Of course, Duff's Roman Catholicism plays a role. I've been keeping that in reserve concerning this whole back and forth with him and lack thereof.

        Your work is in many places where you've posted it. You have plenty of things to say, but your style is not conducive to traction on the issues. You need to do what I've suggested, or you'll not get very far unless you can find someone who will interview you at length to force structure into your overarching concerns. You'd have to be open though. Your bio would have to be somewhat genealogical.

        People often begin to quote me with attribution but then change their minds because they fear my vision. They don't not repost me because I lack structure and coherence.

        Your issues are of the kind that the 9/11 Truthers would not hesitate to entertain and to echo were your statements in digestible format.

        Look, if you can't do it yourself, contact Alex Jones or someone with a staff, and explain what you know but also that you have whatever limitations (evidenced by your possible dyslexia or whatever it is). Ask if they couldn't hear you out and help you work your material into something the 9/11 Truth Movement could run with. If you have deep insights and information that hasn't been covered before, I should think it would be right up Jones alley. He could "break" it on his show as a scoop. He loves being able to be the gate from which things pore that otherwise are frozen out somewhere.

        Now, I'm not freezing you out because I have some reason to protect a bunch of stock frauds or 9/11 insiders, etc. I'm just not set up to deal with you in a way that will take your stuff much further.

        If you had taken a different approach toward me, maybe things might be different in that regard. As it is though, I don't have a huge megaphone. I would only have been able to help you get your stuff in shape for those who do.

        So no more of how you've been going at it here, here. You either work to shape it up in the way I've suggested or close to it for everyone's sake; or take it elsewhere, and I'll just have to wait to run into it if and when you've worked on it said elsewhere.

        Are you grasping what I'm saying to you here? I wonder. It's a shame that you have dots that you want others to articulate without helping them to do so.

    • Tony Ryals

      You should at least know that Alex Jones like Duff has an agenda that is not

      necessarily the truth.

      He at first looked quite good and credible at the time of the London bombings of July 7,2005,

      (that Gilad Atzmon cynically wrote about at the time knowing all the while his relative Menachem Atzmon and ICTS played a role) but it became apparent Alex Jones was totally silent on israeli and Jewish banking interests and even ICTS International's pssible role in 7/7/05.

      Do a search of his website for what he has written about Menachem Atzmon,ICTS International, etc., over the last popst 911 years.

      Not much and I have been censored by him in the past.He even advertizes an 'air water machine',a la the supposed product of MICHAEL ZWEBNER and his Air Water Corp penny stock scam claimed to make when he sued CNN,Wolf Blitzer and my alias for $100 million.

      By the way,the minor attention that my wolfblitzzer0 alias received actually increased that alias's

      life span considerably.

      I've had aliaes on ragingbull that haven't lasted a day.I had more than I can remember.That's where I not only was decived and defrauded but where I learned about penny stocks for money laundering and that not only Israelis but high ranking politicos like Ehud OLMERT,MENCHEM Atzmon,Moshe Katsav and many others were involved in robbing Americans blind and also using these scams for corporate espionage and as it turns out,sabotage.

      As I said,search how many times Alex Jones has mentioned Atzmon and ICTS.Not much and that in itself is suspicious when even you know a bit about it.But not from anything you found on Alex Jones though, correct ?

      I will post my article opinion re VT and Gilad

      Atzmon soon enough.I just thought I'd share it with you.But I need neither your nor Alex Jones understanding or approvaL of either my subject matter or writing style to carry on in my own way.

      • Tony,

        I don't recall where I first learned about ICTS and the false-flags. I didn't learn much about false-flags from Alex Jones.

        There are plenty of things I disagree with that he says. I'm not a "follower." I know he works it. I've seen it. I've called it out.

        He had on Gerald Celente, and edited out Gerald on WikiLeaks because Alex didn't want the competition. Gerald doesn't buy the Duff version at all. Alex was saying that Alex thinks Julian Assange has been duped. That's a "safe" position for Alex. He may believe it. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it was wrong to edit/censor Gerald.

        I also think anti-AGW is stupid. Climategate was a farce. You may feel otherwise. I stand by my statement on Global Warming.

        I can only speculate about what you mean about an alias lasting. Is it some kind of important accomplishment? I doubt it.

        As for your attitude concerning your writing style, I'm not stopping you from carrying on without suggested help. That's your decision. You're wrong, but I'm not here to fret over it. You push people off who allow you to post and who give you sound advice.

        As for corruption in business and finance, honesty is the very rare exception. I been involved in multibillion dollar "deals" that turned out to be scams I alone solved. Others though lost $23 million to "trading houses" hiding behind Polish corresponding banksters with legal but unethical excuses. The FBI and SEC ended up all over the place.

        There are plenty of other ugly stories, even murders, I could relate, but that's not my thing here. Don't be operating under the mis-impression that you're the only one who knows anything. That's how you come off you know.

        Well, it appears you've exhausted it here? Never over stay your welcome.

        If you change your mind and clean things up and get better organized so I can readily see the details and follow a logical sequence, let me know.