Dictatorial, Pseudo-Socialism (Crooked Billionaire Muammar Qaddaffi; aka Gaddafi) or Real, Democratic Socialism

Tweets from oldest to newest:
The dictator supporter: (no typos fixed)

  1. 360CNN (aka "A. Smith") said:
    @TomUsher US @StateDept tried to include 'OPEN CLAUSES' in the #Syrian Res. just as they had corruptly done with #Libya Res.to twist,mutilate
  2. Russia,China self serving? YES, Russias Only Port on Med.Sea is in #Syria. China isn't about to lose #Iran,Syria,Lebanon,N.Korea.
  3. Moral Ground? The Black African Genocide of Libyan Immigrants by #Libya Rebels STARTED after Obama & #NATO began backing Rebels.
  4. IT was obvious from the beginning, US CIA had trained 1000s of Al Qaeda fighters to destabilize Gadhafi thru a violent Civil War
  5. Gadhafi for the past 20 yrs held no official #Libya Gov. position, Gadhafi and his family focused almost entirely African charitys
  6. Both #Libya Rebels groups which Obama and #NATO is using and backing is the LIFG,AQIM BOTH are Blacklisted Terrorist Al Qaeda Org.
  7. The UN.Sec.Coun. has 89 different legal mandates against Israels #Warcrimes and 200+ by UN Gen.Assemb. all US Vetoed. Moral/Fair?
  8. Ok, so you wouldn't even read the articles on that, just blow it off as hogwash. CIA brought 300+ to Virginia alone to train.
  9. Oh,and Bahrain crushing unarmed protesters with US Saudi Tanks OK? Yemen soldiers sniping CHILDREN like blackbirds w/US rifles,OK?
  10. Do you even have a clue as to the social programs #Libya had during Gadhafi? The turn-around in Libya from King Idris was great.
  11. Both Rebels LIFG and AQIM are Al Qaeda Branches, widely recorded,reported,documented Both are BANNED,BLACKLISTED in USA,UK,EU.
  12. Libya: Who's Terrorizing Whom is.gd/gfYKaU 350 terrorists brought to United states and trained by the CIA including Haftar
  13. Yemen troops starting sniping Yemenese Children perched on the Rooftops, so many were killed,they were dropping like Blackbirds.
  14. Yes, I certainly have done the homework on Gadhafi's Social pgms, they were among the finest in the world anywhere PERIOD. Have U?
  15. Describe some of Gadhafi's social pgms and how they benefited all Libyans, Free College Tuition anywhere in the world men,women
  16. 50% OFF wholesale costs on all new vehicles, nearly the same on all home purchases PLUS a 0% Loan from #Libya on remainder.
  17. Gadhafi RAISED national literacy rate from 20% to 80%, no other nations leader on earth has accomplished that. #REALITY
  18. Poverty? Under King Idris Libya avg individual income was 200/yr, under Gadhafi 14,400/yr. Highest in Africa, Middle East PERIOD.
  19. Why did Gadhafi bring in 1.5 Black African Immigrants to help build massive construction pgms, unemployment was near ZERO.
  20. Multiple UN Nations were set to award Gadhafi and his Family for multiple Charitys and Humanitarianism acts in Feb.2011. #Reality
  21. The 8th.wonder of the world the Great Underground River from Sahara thru #Libya cost another Billion, not one penny borrowed.
  22. Who lists LIFG,AQIM as Al Qaeda terrorist branches? US, NATO, MI6, Europe, Interpoll etc. etc. even Wikipedia.
  23. Under Rebels Hero Caliphate King Idris Libya was poorest nation in Africa, Under Gadhafi richest w/lowest infant mortality.
  24. US Drone Strikes on Yemen Troop base who had defected, Missile strikes also on unarmed Yemen Protest Camp no UN Res.nor outrage.
  25. Those I know in Tripoli have been forced to flee to EU nations or suffer violent murder by the Rebel terrorists. I chat with them
  26. Not very much no, just followed the stark demise of# Libya under King Idris to the pinnacle under Gadhafi,no US Pres.ever did such
  27. There was some Oil production under the utterly depraved King Idris,the riches when to about 50 ppl. Huge pedophile,slave traffic
  28. The Rebels FLAG is of Islamic Caliphate King Idris a very selfish,depraved despot w/ highest illiteracy,infant mortality in Africa
  29. The Huge,Extremely Advanced Social Pgms Gadhafi put into place inside #Libya cost many Billions/Yr to operate alone.
  30. The 8th.wonder of the world the Great Underground River from Sahara thru #Libya cost another Billion, not one penny borrowed.
  31. Took the money? Free Med.Care,Free Electricity,Free Rental Housing,Free Education,Free Rx's,Bonus for newborns,Bonus for NewlyWeds
  32. Who's the Crooks? Gadhafi #Libya FREE Med.Care,FREE Rx's,FREE Housing,FREE Education. USA Doesn't have those for ALL Citizens.
  33. How does that justify CIA training 300 foreign Terrorists inside USA,Virgina to go into #Libya and destroy the Gov.? #REALITY
  34. Which US Pres.has raised national literacy from 20% to 80%? NONE Gadhafi did that,far more. Which leader in world duplicated that?
  35. Which Nations in the entire World GIVE FREE ELECTRICITY TO IT's CITIZENS? Gadhafi did but you call him a crook? Go figure!
  36. Which African Nations turned their highest Infant Mortality% in All of Africa to the LOWEST? Gadhafi and you call him a Crook?
  37. Which Nations besides Gadhafi GAVE FREE University Education anywhere in the World except #Libya under Gadhafi?
  38. While #Zionist Israeli and USA bootlickers applauded Egypts Mubarak whose Avg.Ind.GDP was 200/Yr. They booed #Libyas 14,000/Yr

My replies from oldest to newest: (my first tweet here is a reply; some minor typos fixed — replied quickly with distractions)

  1. TomUsher (aka "Tom Usher") said:
    @360CNN Are you claiming Russia & China are holding some moral high-ground regarding Syria? They are self-serving only.
  2. Concerning Libya, I called upon the US to have its military help only in humanitarian ways: non-violent.
  3. I called upon the UN & NATO to be consistent: no civil slaughter in Gaza either: no double-standard, even by secular standards.
  4. Either the UNSC has a R2P everywhere or nowhere. The letter & spirit of the UN expresses a mandate to intervene for greater peace.
  5. I'm a pacifist. I don't agree with violence anywhere, ever. However, It's worse to pick which dictators to stop than stop them all.
  6. Are you a pacifist? If not, which dictators are you prepared to fight to the death, any?
  7. Your statement re/ "Moral Ground" is irrelevant to my position. I have never defended NATO violence. The issue is violence or not.
  8. If the choice is violence ever, then the UNSC should strive to apply it consistently based upon stated principles in the Charter.
  9. "obvious from the beginning, CIA trained 1000s of Al Qaeda fighters to destabilize Gadhafi" I'm anti-CIA, but that's hogwash. [A. Smith/360CNN cited one source that was speculative only and did not claim "1000s." The CIA trains all sorts of people at all sorts of levels. There are people who take advantage of it without then doing all the CIA's bidding. That's my point. If someone wants to raise speculative ideas, that's fine with me so long as they don't then start talking as if they have 100%-positive, firsthand knowledge. We aren't talking metaphysics here. A. Smith/360CNN is no prophet getting the word from on high.]
  10. Qaddaffi was a billionaire. Wake up! He was, and remained, in total dictatorial control of Libya. You've fallen for his garbage.
  11. You don't know diddly for sure about al Qaeda. You're glomming onto rumors & often wild speculation.
  12. "CIA brought 300+ to Virginia alone to train." Do you have the secret documentation that's been independently verified? I'm open.
  13. "Oh,and Bahrain crushing unarmed protesters with US Saudi Tanks OK?" Are you reading someone else's tweets or mine?
  14. "Yemen soldiers sniping CHILDREN like blackbirds w/US rifles,OK?" You're dreaming. Consistency means stopping all of it! Savvy yet?
  15. "Do you even have a clue as to the social programs #Libya had during Gadhafi?" The object isn't going from terrible to Qaddaffi.
  16. This is a waste of time. I'm tweeting back and forthwith someone who doesn't understand how to follow a train of thought.
  17. Are you aware of people who lived in poverty right next door to Qaddaffi's luxury? I read their statements too.
  18. Did you like it when Qaddaffi worked out a nice deal for money with Italy to handle the "black" problem? Some saint.
  19. "Both Rebels LIFG and AQIM are Al Qaeda Branches, widely recorded,reported,documented" By whom, Zionists? Ha!! [al Qaeda, al Qaeda, al Qaeda: That's what the Zionists do. It's crap! It's false propaganda. It's fear-mongering re: 9/11 {which was a neocon (Zionist) false-flag operation on certain levels. There's real proof to substantiate that statement}. ]
  20. "Yemen troops sniping Yemenese [it's Yemeni] Children they were dropping like Blackbirds." It's still irrelevant to my position.
  21. I've been dealing with people on this issue since the first week. Some of them are right in the middle of it. Have you?
  22. I read his Green Book when it came out. Did you?
  23. How much oil was pumping under King Idris? What makes you think I backed Idris? I didn't. Do you argue just to argue? I don't.
  24. Are you unfamiliar with the nearly unlimited amounts of cash (tens of millions) Qaddaffi gave to his kids. Who gave him the right?
  25. Qaddaffi took the oil money for himself to control as dictator. He chose where it went. The people had no say.
  26. Qaddaffi did it on oil money that wasn't there before. He took the money. He controlled it as dictator.

    [Here's a little background:

    The discovery of significant oil reserves in 1959 and the subsequent income from petroleum sales enabled one of the world's poorest nations to establish an extremely wealthy state. Although oil drastically improved the Libyan government's finances, resentment among some factions began to build over the increased concentration of the nation's wealth in the hands of King Idris. This discontent mounted with the rise of Nasserism and Arab nationalism throughout North Africa and the Middle East....

    I supported the democratic socialist ownership and use of Libyan oil. Qaddaffi looked promising. However, he became more and more a self-created cult of personality, a turn which I despise in all actual, and would-be, coercive, anti-democratic dictators.]

  27. Qaddaffi refused to allow the people to vote for their choice for leader. He imprisoned dissenters & tortured them. OK w/ you?
  28. Qaddaffi ordered unarmed protesters to be mowed down in the streets right from the beginning.
  29. Qaddaffi said he'd have his henchmen go house to house in a blood bath to save his dictatorial, greedy regime.
  30. It's really easy to be generous with other people's money. The oil wasn't Qaddaffi's personal property, but he treated it that way.
  31. Qaddaffi was not a great leader. A Great Man would have redressed grievances in peace.
  32. "or suffer violent murder by the Rebel terrorists" Bull! Average people who were once Qaddaffi supporters are not being slaughtered.
  33. What you do is make Idris into Satan so Qaddaffi looks good in some ways while you ignore his deep failings. That's not good enough.
  34. "some Oil production" If you are going to brag about Qaddaffi by comparing him to Idris, then get the oil dollars right.
  35. Qaddaffi wasn't good enough. If the new government isn't good enough when it gets up and running, say so. I will.
  36. When Qaddaffi started mowing down unarmed protesters in the streets, I called on the demonstrators not to take up arms.
  37. Qaddaffi mowed down unarmed protesters. Demonstrators took up arms. I called on NATO to help non-violently.
  38. Qaddaffi mowed down protesters. Demonstrators took up arms. NATO turned violent. I said be consistent in Bahrain & Yemen....
  39. "The Social Pgms in Libya cost Billions/Yr." So what? It was oil money: the people's, not Qaddaffi's personal property. Get it?
  40. "Underground River cost another Billion" So? The people could have done that with the oil money without Qaddaffi taking billions.
  41. Don't you understand that Qaddaffi was a crook?
  42. How much money was Qaddaffi worth? Why did he have one dime more then the poorest person in Libya? Why were his kids so rich?
  43. Did Qaddaffi rule by the consent of the whole Libyan people informed and deciding in free and fair elections? No!
  44. Lots of people still laud Stalin too. Mao could brag about free this, that, and the other but not much oil and not free elections.
  45. If Qaddaffi had led to free this, that, & the other & free elections, I'd be more favorably impressed, but he killed the unarmed.
  46. So before you go to tweet me in future, keep the standards in mind. Qaddaffi wasn't good enough.
  47. is.gd/gfYKaU "reported to be?" "a good presumption that" Do you know what that language means. It means not sure.
  48. "Al-Qaeda...a product of US strategy to arm the Mujahedeen and tear Afghanistan from the grasp of the Soviet Union." It worked too.
  49. You do realize that the CIA is everywhere, right?
  50. There are other leftist views on Libya and Qaddaffi: http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2011/03/29/juan-coles-an-open-letter-to-the-left-on-libya-the-nation.html
  51. I have been extremely impressed by Gilbert Achcar's analysis on Libya (though I remain anti-violence): http://www.realliberalchristianchurch.org/2011/04/14/on-libya-intervention-a-legitimate-and-necessary-debate-from-an-anti-imperialist-perspective-by-gilbert-achcar.html
  52. "A. Smith ... West Coast" Who are you? West Coast of what? "A." standing for what? 360 & CNN means AGW or TIA & MSM?
  53. I'm done at this level. I won't go around at this level with you again. Raise it, or forget it.
  54. Morons like dictators. You go on & on as if I'm a fascist. There's dictatorial, pseudo-socialism (Qaddaffi) or Democratic Socialism.
  55. Re: Libya, you don't converse in an intelligent manner. You continue tweeting me as if I support neoliberalism. You've been idiotic!

This person just doesn't know when to quit:

@360CNN "@TomUsher So you can't find another nation nor leader who provided social programs better than Gadhafi nor raised Literacy to 80% Go FIGURE!"

The issue is governing with the consent of the people. Castro did all of that on a shoestring — no oil money. Had he had, had such oil money, he would not have enriched his family as a socialists with "private landholdings over oil reserves." You like dictatorships that don't allow citizens to vote leaders out. I don't.

"@TomUsher I didn't label you a Moron or a Facist just someone lacking facts and reality. Gadhafi's family tribe owns Sirte region Oil Rich."

I'm not lacking any facts. You haven't told me anything new. I had already heard all the "arguments." He enriched himself way beyond his "families" so-called private landholdings' so-called mineral rights. He took personal control of all Libyan wealth. Did you even watch and listen to the video in the linked post you provided? It supported my views, not yours.

"@TomUsher I've pointed out Gadhafi provided FREE Education,Housing,Electricity,Medical Supplies. YOU moronically call him a crook."

He didn't provide anything. The oil money provided it. Who the Hell do you think he was, God? He took power and then turn dictatorial. How much money did he have personally? You haven't a clue. That video you pointed me to suggests he made off with more than was spent on the people.

How many people did he falsely imprison and torture? Hundreds of people have come forward about the decades of fear and brutality. I believe them. I remember when he killed hundreds. It's all consistent with Qaddaffi's bloody, insane rants and threats.

What's your problem with Social Democracy rather than dictatorship? The Scandinavian countries were doing pretty well until some laissez-faire capitalists started turning heads to greed. Rather than tell the socialists in Scandinavia to slaughter anyone who stands in their way, how about beating the anarcho-capitalists in logical debate?

Look, you just went on and on and on at me as if I'm a neoliberal. I tried to get you to take a breath and re-look at my points, but you just went on and on — all wrong.

Qaddaffi was, and is, what people in this nation call a "prick." Ordinarily, I don't use that term, but it applies. He could have responded very differently to the protests when they started. He could have embarked upon a huge reform movement and ended up helping Libya to become a real Social Democratic nation. Rather than be even that enlightened, which isn't asking much, he decided even before the protests began that he'd crush anyone who even gathered in the streets. It was illegal for what was it, 5 people to gather except for maybe leaving prayers or being in the market. What kind of law was that if not to oppress?

Anyway, I wish the Libyan people well in their new government. I hope they don't sell out to the neoliberals. If they do, they'll suffer the negative consequences.

This person is so typically thick-headed. This is what I got back (just ignoring everything I've said):

"@TomUsher Where's the list of nations and leaders, I'm waiting for the comparison as you falsely spew US propaganda lines against Gadhafi"

"@TomUsher No US leader ever changed a 20% national literacy rate to 80% NONE. Your'e Condemning Gadhafi for doing that shows your'e a poser"

"@TomUsher Intelligent? What other leaders & nations provided FREE Medical Care,College Education,Housing,Electricity besides Gadhafi? Idiot!"

@360CNN You're the typical mouth without brains saying irrelevant things ad nauseam. You just ignore and ignore that Qaddaffi violently forced himself on the Libyans. He was/is an egoist.

The US hasn't had a 20% illiteracy rate in many generations. What President can retroactively change that? Your questions are stupid. Do you know what the literacy rate is in the US right now?

Anyway, you are setting up straw-man arguments, as I don't support neoliberalism and don't have to defend US neoliberal policies or practices.

Every communist/socialist nation has provided all the things you've listed. It's standard. So, Qaddaffi was a pseudo-socialist while taking billions for his family/wild sons, etc.

If you like him so much, why aren't you over there fighting for him? Go be with your coercive-dictator/torturer/thief hero.

I'm done with this now with you. You don't know how to read what I've written and then write back to me building upon what I've said are my positions. All you can do is continue writing at me as if I'm someone else with neoliberal views. That shows that you are thick-headed.

You've had plenty of opportunity to get what I've been saying, but may have some vested interest you don't divulge.

Keep hiding in the dark. It won't get you far especially in Heaven.

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • You will note that if the CIA trained thousands before the protests began in Libya, they sure did a poor job of it. The "Rebels" were in complete disarray for many, many weeks, even months perhaps.

      You will also note that the video embedded in the link supplied by 360CNN/A. Smith does not support A. Smith's contentions or the contentions made in the linked post.

    • Here's the video. Judge for yourself. Then come back and let me know whether it supports the dictator-supporter's contentions:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFH362cQuU