Scofield, Oxford Publishing, Rothschilds

First of all, Joe Ortiz is a friend of mine. Some people consider him impossible to converse with. I don't see it that way. When I have had something to say to Joe that he may not have known, I've found him receptive.

Joe has had a recent back and forth with Cris D. Putnam. During the process since Cris posted on his blog about it, I've had an opportunity to weigh in on it.

First, here's Joe's latest blog post. It will open in a new tab so you may easily comment here: The End Times Passover: The Connection between the Scofield Bible, Oxford Publishing & The House of Rothschild ~.

Now, rather than write a great deal of text here, I'm just going to supply you with some links that I trust will be self-explanatory.

Scofield Reference Bible

As you will recall from Joe's post (written by one "Robert Singer") mentions that the offending quote from Scofield's Reference Bible is from the 1967 version. Scofield died in 1921. The earlier versions 1909 and 1917 did not contain that language ("A Curse Laid Upon Those Who Persecute the Jews").

For your convenience: Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)

Here's the 1967 version edited by Zionists long after Scofield's actual versions: New Scofield Reference Bible: C. I. Scofield D.D., Editor
Scofield Notes: p.19 "The Abrahamic Covenant"
Referenced to Genesis 12:1

Note the part of the title that says "New" and also that it says "C. I. Scofield D.D., Editor," even though he was dead and did not and would not necessarily have approved any of the changes from his 1917 version that were made for the 1967 so-called edition. I don't know the degree to which the 1967 version makes that clear.

This next one is simply to say that while I do not agree with Freemasonry, Albert Pike did not write the letter attributed to him by Robert Singer: Taxil hoax.

After that, there is the age-old Ashkenazi/Khazar theory put forth most recently by one "Shlomo Sand": Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.

Also, even though the Wikipedia often has its faults, the current version (last accessed Jan. 6, 2012) of this article on Dispensationalism is fairly reasonable.

Here's perhaps a slight deviation but nevertheless something I believe worth considering: Gap creationism.

Here's Cris's blog post against Joe Ortiz: Joe Ortiz Claims Jesus Was Not a Jew!

I have commented there so far here, here, and here.

Here are some quotes from Scofield (1917):

Genesis 11:10 KJV
(10) These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

(Scofield)
Gen 11:10
generations of Shem

Genesis 11. and 12. mark an important turning point in the divine dealing. Heretofore the history has been that of the whole Adamic race. There has been neither Jew nor Gentile; all have been one in "the first man Adam." Henceforth, in the Scripture record, humanity must be thought of as a vast stream from which God, in the call of Abram and the creation of the nation of Israel, has but drawn off a slender rill, through which He may at last purify the great river itself. Israel was called to be a witness to the unity of God in the midst of universal idolatry (Deu_6:4); (Isa_43:10-12) to illustrate the blessedness of serving the true God (Deu_33:26-29) to receive and preserve the divine revelations; (Rom_3:1); (Rom_3:2); (Deu_4:5-8) and to produce the messiah; (Gen_3:15); (Gen_21:12); (Gen_28:10); (Gen_28:14); (Gen_49:10); (2Sa_7:16); (2Sa_7:17); (Isa_4:3); (Isa_4:4); (Mat_1:1).

The reader of scripture should hold firmly in mind:

(1) that from Gen 12. to (Mat_12:45) the Scriptures have primarily in view Israel, the little rill, not the great Gentile river; though again and again the universality of the ultimate divine intent breaks into view (for example; (Gen_12:3); (Isa_2:2); (Isa_2:4); (Isa_5:26); (Isa_9:1-2); (Isa_11:10-12); (Isa_42:1-6); (Isa_49:6); (Isa_49:12); (Isa_52:15); (Isa_54:3); (Isa_55:5); (Isa_60:3); (Isa_60:5); (Isa_60:11-16); (Isa_61:6); (Isa_61:9); (Isa_62:2); (Isa_66:12); (Isa_66:18); (Isa_66:19); (Jer_16:19); (Joe_3:9); (Joe_3:10); (Mal_1:11) Ro 9. 10. 11. (Gal_3:8-14).

(2) that the human race, henceforth called Gentile in distinction from Israel, goes on under the Adamic and Noahic covenants; and that for the race (outside Israel) the dispensations of Conscience and of Human government continue. The moral history of the great Gentile world is told in (Rom_1:21-32) and its moral accountability in (Rom_2:1-16). Conscience never acquits: it either "accuses" or "excuses." Where the law is known to the Gentiles it is to them, as to Israel, "a ministration of death," a "curse"; (Rom_3:19); (Rom_3:20); (Rom_7:9-10); (2Co_3:7); (Gal_3:10). A wholly new responsibility arises when either Jew or Gentile knows the Gospel; (Joh_3:18); (Joh_3:19); (Joh_3:36); (Joh_15:22-24); (Joh_16:9); (1Jo_5:9-12).

Genesis 12:1 KJV
(1) Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

(Scofield)
Gen 12:1
Now the Lord

The Fourth Dispensation: Promise. For Abraham, and his descendants it is evident that the Abrahamic Covenant (See Scofield) - (Gen_15:18) made a great change. They became distinctively the heirs of promise. That covenant is wholly gracious and unconditional. The descendants of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but not their covenant. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law (Exo_19:8). Grace had prepared a deliverer (Moses), provided a sacrifice for the guilty, and by divine power brought them out of bondage (Exo_19:4) but at Sinai they exchanged grace for law. The Dispensation of Promise extends from (Gen_12:1) to (Exo_19:8); and was exclusively Israelitish. The dispensation must be distinguished from the covenant. The former is a mode of testing; the latter is everlasting because unconditional. The law did not abrogate the Abrahamic Covenant (Gal_3:15-18) but was an intermediate disciplinary dealing "till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made"; (Gal_3:19-29); (Gal_4:1-7). Only the dispensation, as a testing of Israel, ended at the giving of the law.

Genesis 15:18

covenant

The Abrahamic Covenant as formed (Gen_12:1-4) and confirmed; (Gen_13:14-17); (Gen_15:1-7); (Gen_17:1-8) is in seven distinct parts:

(1) "I will make of thee a great nation." Fulfilled in a threefold way:

(a) In a natural posterity -- "as the dust of the earth (Gen_13:16); (Joh_8:37); namely, the Hebrew people.

(b) In a spiritual posterity -- "look now toward heaven . . . so shall thy seed be" (Joh_8:39); (Rom_4:16-17); (Rom_9:7-8); (Gal_3:6); (Gal_3:7); (Gal_3:29) namely, all men of faith, whether Jew or Gentile.

(c) fulfilled also through Ishmael (Gen_17:18-20).

(2) "I will bless thee." Fulfilled in two ways:

(a) temporally (Gen_13:14); (Gen_13:15); (Gen_13:17); (Gen_15:18); (Gen_24:34-35)
(b) spiritually; (Gen_15:6); (Joh_8:56).

(3) "And make thy name great." Abraham's is one of the universal names.

(4) "And thou shalt be a blessing" (Gal_3:13); (Gal_3:14).

(5) "I will bless them that bless thee." In fulfilment closely related to the next clause.

(6) "And curse him that curseth thee." Wonderfully fulfilled in the history of the dispersion. It has invariably fared ill with the people who have persecuted the Jew -- well with those who have protected him. The future will still more remarkably prove this principle (Deu_30:7); (Isa_14:1); (Joe_3:1-8); (Mic_5:7-9); (Hag_2:22); (Zec_14:1-3); (Mat_25:40); (Mat_25:45). [emphasis added]

(7) "In thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed." This is the great evangelic promise fulfilled in Abraham's Seed, Christ (Gal_3:16); (Joh_8:56-58).

It brings into greater definiteness the promise of the Adamic Covenant concerning the Seed of the woman (Gen_3:15).

NOTE. -- The gift of the land is modified by prophecies of three dispossessions and restorations (Gen_15:13); (Gen_15:14); (Gen_15:16); (Jer_25:11); (Jer_25:12); (Deu_28:62-65); (Deu_30:1-3). Two dispossessions and restorations have been accomplished. Israel is now in the third dispersion, from which she will be restored at the return of the Lord as King under the Davidic Covenant; (Deu_30:3); (Jer_23:5-8); (Eze_37:21-25); (Luk_1:30-33); (Act_15:14-17).

Lastly, here's an article that addresses the statement made by Cris in his post ("...distinctions between classic, revised, and progressive dispensationalism...."):

Dispensationalism in Transition
Challenging Traditional Dispensationalism's "Code of Silence"
© Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., 1997, February 1997
OUT WITH THE OLD; IN WITH THE NEW: INTRODUCING THE MAJOR PLAYERS IN DISPENSATIONAL EVOLUTION

All of that said, I tell you I agree with Joe's underlying theme that Zionism is evil, not supported by Jesus, and will fail. I agree with Joe that so-called Christian-Zionism is flat-out wrong.

I am not a Dispensationalist. I believe in dispensations by God but not in the Fundamentalists' Dispensationalism regardless of the type: classic, revised, or even progressive. I do not subscribe to the Gap Theory. I do not subscribe to the literal interpretation of the 6 days of creation, including the Day-Age literal interpretation. I do agree with it on a figurative basis. I do not believe in the "Rapture." I do not believe that the Adam of the Bible was created around 4004 BC or that all of the people of the world came only from those who were on Noah's Ark and coming after 4004 BC. I don't believe that all the species of the earth were on board Noah's Ark either, even though Jesus specifically mentions Noah. I don't find it irreconcilable. Jesus also mentions Abel, Adam's son. He mentions Jonah as well. What Jesus doesn't due is show himself a literalist in the most capital-F Fundamentalist sense. In fact, he shows himself much the figurativist via his many beautiful and wonderful and highly instructive parables, which most certainly do impart truth. I believe theistic evolution is possible (ring species today hint at it strongly as has the fossil record for many, many decades if not centuries now) but also that evolution would not overturn the Gospel message in any case, including the miracles therein and many miracles in the Bible before Jesus's human manifestation.

Exactly where to draw the line between the literal and figurative is something I do not know but believe God will not hold that against me. Even Jesus didn't know everything while he was manifest in the flesh and before he was perfected and went back to God from here. If you think all of this makes me an idiot, I'm not concerned for myself on account of that.

Update: At this point, Cris Putnam is no brother in Christ. He framed Joe Ortiz and thought he'd get away with it. He refused to say whether he's a Zionist. He refused to apologize for calling Joe and Nathaniel racists /ethnic bigots. He also refused to acknowledge the spiritual meaning of terms, including "Jew."

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  • Tom Usher

    About Tom Usher

    Employment: 2008 - present, website developer and writer. 2015 - present, insurance broker. Education: Arizona State University, Bachelor of Science in Political Science. City University of Seattle, graduate studies in Public Administration. Volunteerism: 2007 - present, president of the Real Liberal Christian Church and Christian Commons Project.
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    • Joe Ortiz

      Look up the  word "Dispensation"  in the  Greek Dictionary. Most scholars cannot agree if the word describes "fellowship" or" Administration"  because the Greek words are so similar.  Yet, an entire doctrine  has  been developed by  proponents to mean "administration"

      • For what it's worth, here's what Fausset said:

        The Divine Lawgiver from the very time of instituting the Law (Deuteronomy 18) looked forward to (Deu 18:6) the Christian dispensation, which was to embody its spirit while superseding its letter (2Co 3:6-18). The gospel dispensation is the last, and is called "the world to come" (Heb 2:5), "the ends of the world" (1Co 10:11), "these last days" (Heb 1:2), "the kingdom of God" or "of the heavens" (Mat 4:17). It has successive stages:
        (i.) the present, "the ministration of the Spirit" (2Co 3:8), "the times of the Gentiles" (Luk 21:24), the period during which "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation" (Luk 17:20);
        (ii.) the epiphany of the glory of the great God and Savior (Tit 2:13), the manifested kingdom when He "will restore it to Israel" (Act 1:6-7; Eze 21:27), and Himself shall "take His great power and reign" with His transfigured saints for a thousand years over the nations in the flesh, and Israel at their head (Zechariah 14; Isaiah 2; 65; 66; Rev 11:15; Rev 11:17; Rev 5:10; Rev 5:20);
        (iii.) the final ages of ages, when there shall be the new heavens and earth and the holy new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21; 22).

        That was Fausset. "Fausset's Bible Dictionary," by Andrew Robert Fausset (1821-1910) http://www.ccel.org/ccel/fausset_ar

        We have to know though that by the time this happens, "Israel" is Christian. It is not a slave master. It is not ethnically bigoted. It puts itself last in service to humanity. The so-called Christian Zionists don't understand that the one and only way to be on the right side of such prophecy is by remaining Christian the whole time, never facilitating the evil of Zionism.