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| Breadcrumb Menu: RLCC BLOG | Current location on RLCC website: Page/Post/Archive Title » PART 2: GAZA V. ISRAEL: VIDEO OF WHAT U.S. MADE BOMBS SOLD TO AND DROPPED BY FALSE-ZIONIST ISRAELIS (MASS BUTCHERS) DO TO MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN | |||||||||||||||
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ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT, VENUS PROJECT, PETER JOSEPH: LIARS FROM THE BEGINNING (36)
WHO IS ZANE ULLMAN, AND WHY IS HE SAYING THOSE TERRIBLE THINGS ABOUT ME? (36)
AMAZING JEWS PROTESTING WORLD ZIONIST ORGANIZATION IN NEW YORK (28)
MARK THE BEGINNING OF THE REVERSAL OF THE HYPOCRITICAL HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA (27)
PART 1: TO DEBATE TO GET AT AND TO SHOW TRUTH IS CHRISTIAN (27)
ROLL BACK TO IE 7 (24)
THE CHRISTIAN COMMONS PROJECT (21)
ABOUT OUR NAME: REAL LIBERAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH (20)
SEMANTICAL THEOLOGY: FUNDAMENTALISM, THE EDEN STORY, AND WHO IS A REAL JEW (20)
PART 1: HOMOSEXUALITY, GENETICS, AND OVERCOMING (18)
CHAPTER 1: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CONSERVATIVE-REPUBLICAN CHRISTIAN (16)
CATO INSTITUTE, WICKED HEALTH-STATUS INSURANCE, CHARLES KOCH, MURRAY ROTHBARD, ERNIE LAZAR, AND MORE (16)
WRITE HERE AND THERE (15)
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If you are faint at heart, don't watch it. If you want to see what should be shown on CNN, then do watch it:
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Comments Posted (More often than not, the most action is in the comments.): 16 Comments ». Add Comment.
Standing Comment, all posts and pages:
To all homosexuals and their supporters, condoners, promoters, accepters, confirmers, and the like:
Unless you have something completely new that hasn't already been refuted, don't bother. It won't show up.
Rehashing what has already been refuted is a waste of everyone's time.
I'm not interested in casting pearls before swine, giving the children's bread to the dogs, or rebuking a forever scorner.
Learn or go away: There is zero wisdom in homosexuality. Homosexuality is wrong. Nothing any homosexual or anyone else can say or do will alter it. No one needs the Bible to know it either. It's prima facie. There's no such thing as an unrepentant-homosexual Christian. There never has been and never will be. That's the way of it. If you don't like it, change.
Do site searches on the various topics concerning homosexuality to determine if your "point" has already been handled. Currently, I provide three different search methods. The "WordPress" search is still the most thorough.
The same can be done regarding militarism, capitalism, coercion, and many other main issues and themes.
TREATMENT, RUDENESS, POLITENESS, OFFENSE, TRUTH
Many times over the course of this website's existence, I've had commentators complain about how I've treated them and/or others. Much less frequently has anyone taken exception to those commentator's comments. I assume that's because for one, I appear to be holding my own.
Often, I have raised the fact that Jesus called certain people "serpents." I've often also mentioned how he cleaned the temple with whip in hand, not that he used it on anyone. It certainly doesn't say that he did, and neither was he charged with it in the kangaroo court of the serpents who ended up murdering him by proxy just for, among other wonderful things, speaking out and speaking truth.
If I say that those who are engaged in serpentine behavior are the New Testament "serpents," then why take offense at my saying it rather than standing with Jesus and me about it?
If others don't like it that I treat others or them the way I have in this regard, why don't they take it up with the serpents and/or their own consciences and God?
If I wanted to catch flies, I'd use honey. I don't want flies on this level. Human beings aren't to be on the level of flies. If the truth is bitter as vinegar, then ask yourself why and learn to taste it as sweet but not sickeningly so. Why attack the message and messenger, as the serpents did, and become a serpent by so doing?
The issue is not "name calling" on some bratty, childish level. When Jesus said "serpents," he was not being as a brat. His level was completely adult to adults and children. He dared say that the children understood the clear and plain truth before the adults who, afterall, had been abused and socialized by the serpents. He still calls adults back. Those who hear him and know his voice (truth) turn around and do the other required things together as well.
What is it for a human being to be more serpentine or reptilian than what God initially gave? What was and remains Jesus's point? What is the reptilian brain versus the vastly higher human brain with its cerebral cortex and frontal and temporal lobes and specific areas of altruistic sentiments and abilities? What are those higher areas before they are damaged, before the communication pathways to them and between them are diminished by evil that is always some form of abuse? How are those pathways reestablished or created where they never were in this fleshly life?
The snake lays its eggs. The eggs hatch. The snake parent doesn't nurture or raise the offspring. It's every snake for itself. Human parents and family are not designed to be that way. Humans hand down the learning of nurturing. Many people get better training than do others, and many people have a greater aptitude for learning and predisposition for the higher and highest virtues. Many are less abused. People can change for the better and best though, no matter where the starting point. They only can't if they don't — if they reject it.
Snakes, of course, also come in venomous varieties and in strangling varieties, etc., such that they have been attackers and even devourers of humans for eons, guilty and innocent alike.
Now, Jesus knew that most people could relate to what were, and still are, largely considered "good" parenting skills and "good" "family" relations. He regularly used those concepts to get people to consider the wider implications for the whole of humanity. He did know that many would refuse. He let them go. He didn't demand secular or false-religion legislation to rein them in with threats of violence and imprisonment. He was not and is not coercive. Even his Church is a voluntary place to be.
What he still teaches (through the written words in the New Testament and as those connect with the Old and also teaches through the Holy Spirit he definitely sent as he said he would) is, among many other things, that "good" is vastly better than has been commonly accepted and that real "family" is everyone left after all the rest have rejected the higher and highest good. He raised the standards far above the Old Testament and far above the "modern" standard.
The American Empire and the American people in general aren't even touching the hem of his garment, let alone even attempting to stand upright and side-by-side with him.
I point out that Jesus was, and is, a Real Liberal Christian. He is the one who brought back this censored truth that is the light. After he had spoken it and lived it and was murdered for doing so, the censors set about to re-censor it and did. They couldn't put it out though — couldn't completely extinguish the truth. I wouldn't be saying it now again with all credit to God, just as Jesus, if they had been able to completely block it.
I point out that each of those terms ("real," "liberal," and "Christian," along with "Church") are actually redundant terms — synonyms that are so close that they become one. The term "liberal" here is not the common usage, which common usage is a deliberate corruption of the term. There is no harm in real liberalism. There is no vileness in it. There is only beneficence. "Real" may be understood as the opposite of false-hearted, dark side, and dead of the Holy Spirit. Christian is both real and liberal in those senses. To arrive at living, doing, being those full senses requires what Jesus lives, does, and is in the highest. Finally, the Church is the whole.
Who are they who want to drag it down, censor it, work against it, lessen it, ignore it, etc.? Well, who sides with Jesus and who sides against him? Did the serpents side with him then? Do they now?
We call war-mongers "hawks." We call "peacemakers" blessed and "doves." Why do the hawks not take offense at "hawks" but do take offense at "serpents"? "Hawks" is not yet as telling to the general public, but I must tell you that all hawks are serpents. Why do some say, "Greed is good" but take offense at "serpents"? I tell you there is no difference between the selfish and the serpents. Why do people take offense at serpents when they do not take offense at homosexuality? I tell you the homosexual spirit also comes out from the dark side. It is a choice. It is harmful. Many are abused with it. Many never overcome it. Their very brain matter is transformed by it. Then they claim it is good when it remains confusion and definitely wrong and harmful.
Many arguments were put forth in support of tolerance. I understood that Jesus "tolerated," as in he did not execute wrath but rather told the truth and let the blind follow the blind (blind to the truth) into the ditch of their own making. I have watched while the movement has been corrupted into condoning what was once only to be tolerated. I have watched further while it has moved from condoning to promoting even to the youngest children to get to them before the truth does. I have seen evil at work, and I sound the alarm. I face censorship and other negative reactions for it.
As the American Empire claims to be a light to the world, it murders innocent babies by Hellfire missiles fired from predator drones controlled by armchair, video-gaming serpents in uniform. It tortures those who are not even suspects. It spies on its own without even probable cause or reasonable suspicion. It lies its way into wars for spoils and control. It neglects its poor, whom it treads down for the sakes of the superrich — for the sake of the massive flow of mammon from the bottom up (no trickledown — trickledown is a farce and always has been). All is claimed to be okay in America though — that America is headed in the right direction — because soon, even "don't tell, don't ask" will be a thing of the quaint past and homosexuals may be able to sleep together and have sex in the barracks with the "blessing" of the Empire while they practice murdering the innocent for the sake of homosexual, greedy plutocrats who own them and who, in turn, are owned by the dark-side spirit named by God and Jesus as Satan.
Whose side are you on? I speak truth to warn. I don't tell the secular government what to do other than occasionally to say what at least would be less hypocritical within their fallen, unenlightened system. I do so for spiritual reasons. What I want is the Christian Commons.
Now, if you submit a comment:
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords. (Psalms 55:21)
What you write here against the Real Liberal Christian Church founded by Jesus Christ will mark you in the Biblical sense unless you show that you have turned and are repenting in time to escape the damnation of your own choosing. That's the way of it. Don't be tempted by the devil to stand opposed to the call of righteousness. Overcome such evil temptation. Help others to help yet others to come to righteous behavior through-and-through.
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I know you won't bury it. You are in my prayers Tom!
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Still planting!
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Hi Tom, It was my eyes! I did not see the "click here"
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Sunday, January 4, 2009 @ 11:31:27 PM (Pacific Time)
Great video and interesting to watch here..I like these kind of posting and new updates as well..
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 7:51:28 AM (Pacific Time)
I see a lot of commentary around all forms of media on both sides of the coin. The Jews did this, the Arabs did that, the Jews didn't do this, the Arabs didn't do that...
But what I rarely ever see, is folks simply stating that God is in control!
If one side or the other, or both sides, are sinning, and doing the wrong thing, will it not be God who is the final judge?
Isn't God watching as all of this is happening? Doesn't he know the hearts of each and every person involved in the conflict(s)?
Let me give you an example, here is our Church's stand on the subject of: "The Middle East Conflict"
"First read Genesis Chapters 16 & 17. After that, you will have found where this current conflict started! God was in control then, and God is in control now.
God is well aware of what is happening now, and he is already in the know about what is going to be happening in the future.
This is not the business of the Christian. To think otherwise, is to stray from the business of the Christian.
What is the business of the Christian?
Read Luke 10:26-28
Read Matthew 28:18-20
Then what should these folks in the conflict be doing then, if they are supposed to be trusting God, and letting God be the Master of their lives?
Read Romans 12:17-21
Nowhere in the Bible does the Lord Jesus tell Christians to get involved with sinning. Let the sinners sin, and steer clear of them, except to preach the Gospel to them, and that's it...
God will punish the wicked for their wickedness, not us. Let Him do His job, and we will do ours."
Satan is quick to magnify ANY conflict, in the hopes that Christians will jump on board. He does a good job indeed! Look how many Christians are more concerned with the conflict itself, as opposed to spreading the Gospel and saving our fellow man from Hell as we were ordered to!
Then how do we ease the suffering of the world then?
Read Matthew 28:18-20
Do what it says, and ignore the distractions that Satan puts in front of us everyday, in the hopes that we will stray from Matthew 28:18-20
Our opinion is not a popular one, but it is a biblical one. And that is what counts at the Bema Judgment Seat.
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 11:14:51 AM (Pacific Time)
Hello Agnus,
Reportedly, it was recorded via a cell phone. It was banned by YouTube. Now, that's offensive.
I wouldn't know whether you would know who Walter Cronkite is. He would have put it on the CBS Evening News for the whole of America to see. He would shutdown Israel from continuing to be extreme savages and land thieves. Are we beasts or Homo sapiens, or are Homo sapiens just beasts?
Walter Cronkite showed the Vietnam War right on the Evening News for all to see night after night. He showed mass murder on the steps of churches. He showed dormitories being riddled by machine-gun fire from racist militarists in the Deep South of the United States. Now that was journalism. The stuff they do over at FOX News is not journalism. It's sickening government propaganda.
The thing that has killed journalism is greed — corporate greed primarily. The corporations are used to drive fascistic ideology. That's why Gaza reminds one so much of Guernica, April 1937 (the Spanish Civil War that started off WWII).
We won't have peace until the people finally give up and overcome war. We will never have peace through militarism, never. We must abolish the Pentagon and not replace it with anything of the kind. All the nation must follow this.
God bless,
Tom
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 1:49:46 PM (Pacific Time)
Hello Guy Vestal,
Both sides in the conflict are wrong. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: (John 16:8 KJVR)
By our words, And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16:19 KJVR)
We bind evil and loose love with our words and deeds.
The business of the Christian is Jesus's version of the Golden Rule. He showed it and spoke it. He also said, Serpents, generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23:33)
We practice the Golden Rule when we host the video; because, if we were the Gazans, we would want someone telling the world of our imprisonment and the theft of our lands and all the degradations we have suffered at the hands of the hardhearted. The Palestinians have the lesser sin in this conflict. God sees it and says it.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matthew 5:9 KJVR)
We can't make peace with our eyes and ears and mouths shut. We can't move others to peace when they are ignorant about the horrors of war and don't know the truth about who has done what to whom.
No one is responsible enough until he or she has heard and rejected truth. First it must be offered to them.
Of course, I take your point that once they've been told, if they don't turn, then Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. (Matthew 15:14 KJVR)
Then they are separated away.
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. (John 9:41 KJVR)
For those who don't know, the Bema Seat Judgment is also known as the Great White Throne Judgment by some but referred to a separate judgment just for Christians by others. This area is what is commonly termed evangelical eschatology. It comes from the Greek eskhatos, meaning end, last, final, ultimate result, etc. The Bema Seat Judgment is about rewarding the sheep. It is semantical.
Readers, understand that this all falls within the spectrum of debate as to the literalness versus figurativeness of the words. We must never lose sight of the fact that Jesus regularly used words such as "like unto."
Now this is important. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. (Luke 12:36 KJVR)
So when I say to you (anyone) to help bring forth via the Christian Commons and you refuse, who are we?
That pertains to the Israelis as well. They need to be warned.
Guy, if you want to explain further to the readers here what you mean specifically by the Bema Seat, etc., go ahead and add another comment to that end. You can say what the name of your church is, etc., and any denomination and the like to help people to sort things. That sort of information is all right here. There are limits of course. Links to porn wouldn't be tolerated from within my house (which you would never do I know), but links so people may come to better understand the different theologies is fine from an "educational" perspective. Much of what Jesus says is nearly incomprehensible to those who never consider the different competing theologies of the Jews and others.
God bless,
Tom Usher
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 7:44:10 PM (Pacific Time)
Video is good.
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 7:46:01 PM (Pacific Time)
Video is nice and needs a strong heart to see, really.
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 7:46:41 PM (Pacific Time)
Greetings...
I answered your comment, but because my answer would touch on other subjects in the theme, and because I didn't want to type all night, and stream down your comments with a big long response, I did a podcast. This way I kill two birds with one stone. It is 1 hour in length, so 9 out of 10 will refuse to listen. But that is ok, most of those are the same types that look at their watch whilst the Pastor is in his "sermon mode" LOL
Podcast is here
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 7:48:11 PM (Pacific Time)
You captured it by your cell, but its clear to see. Your cell must having good quality camera.
Monday, January 5, 2009 @ 11:34:26 PM (Pacific Time)
Hello C. S.,
It is good to expose those who have been warned over and over and over but who do not repent.
To clarify, I am not the one who did the recording. I don't know who did it.
Thank you for watching it and for supporting me that I linked to it to spread the truth of the utter abominations occurring at the bloody hands of the false-Zionists who founded their nation-state by terrorism and deceit, as so many nations are want to do, but that must stop and stop with the Israelis or the wrath will come.
Truth,
Tom Usher
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 @ 1:56:25 AM (Pacific Time)
Hello Guy,
In your podcast, you said, "Shut up and do as you're told" in reference to obeying the secular government. You did that based upon Paul's teachings. If that is correct in the blanket sense I take it you intend, then Peter and John were flatly wrong concerning how they handled the Sanhedrin, as follows:
In other words, Peter and John said, "No" to the Sanhedrin. They would, and did, continue speaking and teaching in the name of Jesus. They would have done so regardless of anything coming out from the Sanhedrin self-authorized, so-called power.
This matters. If we are told by the secular state to kill or to do any other thing that violates an express commandment of Jesus and we do the will of that secular state or any other state, we sin against God. Surely, either Paul was wrong or you are misconstruing.
Paul was wrong. Paul created confusion. I have never learned anything reading Paul other than the mistakes of Paul to be avoided. Paul was not infallible.
You say that God doesn't need our help but that we are to believe on Jesus's name and go make disciples of all nations. Well, why doesn't God make those disciples himself without you? Also, what is it to believe Jesus's name? Those are rhetorical questions, but you are free to address them.
Jesus did not kneel to the Sanhedrin. He spoke against them — against the powers and principalities. We are to do that too.
You also said "a sin is a sin is a sin" by which you meant that all sin is the same. Well all sin is sin but not all sin is equally offensive to God. Jesus said that the one who turned him over to Pontius Pilate had the greater sin. Sin is absolute and relative at the same time.
I also heard you tell people to vote in the secular elections as Jesus would vote. Jesus doesn't vote in any such elections.
The teaching that we are to do what the evil powers tell us to do is designed to prevent us from bringing forth the feeding of the lambs and sheep of God in both body and spirit thereby overturning those powers in truth. We aren't violently and coercively to fight back against anyone. We are not to obey evil demanding from us that which is God's. We are to refuse even to the point of being crucified.
Guy, there is no way to ignore oppression while being Christlike. Preaching what is written is not enough. Doing what is written is required.
Do you respond in the affirmative or hold your peace? (asked in a very calm, matter-of-fact manner)
If you respond, please do so in writing. People may read at different speeds.
Blessings Of Truth To You,
Tom Usher
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 @ 11:34:01 AM (Pacific Time)
Greetings Tom...
It is only on rare occasions when I can kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone, that I answer with a podcast. So fear not.
I did that based upon the Lord's teachings. The 13 "Pauline Epistles" are just as "God Breathed" as the other 53 books. God is the "Author", Paul is the "writer".
It is not. My statement was directed towards decisions that man makes concerning laws he makes. The examples would be Abortion & Same-sex marriage. Man's votes brought the laws in, man must respect them. Man's judiciary floats them, man must respect it.
God told us things like this would happen the day the Israelites chose a "King" to rule over them, as opposed to God.
1 Samuel 8:5-22
God warned them what would happen, and it is happening. Mankind freely chose "self rule" over God's rule, now mankind must live with that decision.
Nope. Matthew 28:18-20 is the one exception to that rule. Christ specifically overthrows mans authority in that matter in verse 18: " And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" He then goes on to give the command/commission that the aforementioned authority applies to.
Again, as I said in the podcast you are referring to, "Horns of a dilemma", gored no matter which way we turn. We disobey God, we sin, we disobey the institution of government, we sin. It is a bed of our own making. No one ever said being a disciple of Christ was going to be easy.
Paul and I could both be wrong more than likely because we are both human. But the 13 Pauline Epistles are God breathed, and those words are not able to be in error.
Again, more than likely, ANY HUMAN, including you and I are more than likely wrong, many a time. That is part of being human. If you have learned nothing from the 13 Pauline Epistles, it is not Paul that was teaching you, but God. The 13 books are God breathed, and it is God you paid no heed to. I suggest re-reading them, God has many things to teach. No human is "infallible", that includes you and I.
Freewill. It started as a choice when Eve bit the fruit in the garden, and it is still a choice.
Then by that standard, so is forgiveness, and so is Grace. God only forgives "a little bit" sometimes, and He only gives out "some" grace sometimes.
I prefer a loving God, who means what He says, and says what He means. Not a flip-flop waffle boy that changes His mind on the fly. God's character will not allow "levels of severity", to say so would also say that he can "tolerate some sin more than others." God tolerates NO SIN, at any time. ALL SIN is offensive. Be it a dollar, or a dime, it is all the same cash. By your interpretation, the "original sin" is much lesser than others! It was simply a refusal to follow orders, not nearly as bad as murder?
He is not required to bow before no one. he made that clear to Satan in the desert when asked to do so in exchange for the kingdoms of the world. He follows God's law, He chose no human to rule over Him. We did. He chose the Father, we turned our backs on the Father.
Pretty desperate to have to twist a cliche to prove a point? Jesus may not stand in line, step into a booth, and cast His vote, then return the ballot. But to think He does not hold sway over the politics of man is to ignore Exodus 4:21 & Exodus 11:9
The "teaching" that we are to do is right here: Matthew 28:20 "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."
Exalting sin is not taught anywhere in the Bible. Using sin to combat sin is taught nowhere in the 66 books. Causing others to sin by exalting sin? The "Middle East conflict brings out sin on BOTH sides of the coin. BOTH sides are wrong, ergo BOTH supporters of BOTH sides are wrong by default. Building an agenda on the sin of others is only exalting the sin of others.
And how do you figure that I am not "doing what is written"? I do sin, in fact, I sin daily, just like you, and all other humans.
So here is a question: You have had two opportunities to address my original concern, yet you have not? Why? Here... Let me blockquote it here, so we can get back to my original statement, now that we have danced around it twice...
Is God in "control" or not? yes or no is all that is needed, no need to feel that you have to justify the answer, I am satisfied with Yes or No only if you choose.
"If" God is in control, then what do we really think we are going to do when we have no "control"?
Is God:
Omnipotent?
Omnipresent?
Omniscient?
If He is all three, doesn't that give Him control by default because we are not any of the three?
And lastly, is there/are there specific verse(s) in the Bible that specifically state that causing descension on the subjects of the USA & Israel are required teaching?
How does that "Blame game" work again?
Genesis 3:12 "The man said, The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate."
Oh ya, that's right! It didn't work then, and it still doesn't work now. LOL
The blame for all the ills of the world belongs to Satan, and humanity as a whole. Not just Bush/Cheney/Rove/The GOP the majority of the time.
Wednesday, January 7, 2009 @ 7:07:23 AM (Pacific Time)
Guy Vestal of Genesis Christian Ministries,
Ordinarily, I try to take people's comments point-by-point in order.
Sometimes it's better not to, as here.
When a stranger, as you are to me, says something or poses something about God's being in control, am I obligated to pipe up "that's right"? If I don't echo with everyone an "Amen," am I dancing around? I know that's not the case. You made how many comments here and I've answered how many comments here before you've characterized me as one who beats around the bush? Guy, have you addressed every one of my points? No, you have not, even as you say I'm already ducking. When is it and isn't it the appropriate point at which to point out that someone is avoiding? You are wildly premature. That point can come instantly, but it certainly did not in this case and hasn't come yet and won't. I have not ducked and will not duck anything you say. I may very well end up ignoring you after you've been offered more than enough, which is now.
Jesus didn't even always answer everyone's direct questions. He sometimes asked questions to reveal a lack of worthiness on the part of those who came to tempt him, to test him, even though they knew he was speaking right. I'm fine with that (within the full context). Was he dancing around them? When I dance around anything, you'll know it and so will everyone else. That time has not come. I haven't danced or ducked anything. Is that clear. (Very matter-of-factly — no sarcasm; not negative condescension; rhetorical)
Now, since you are apparently accustomed in your mind's eye to dealing with people ostensibly professing Christianity who don't hold that God is the ultimate power, let me say, so that there will be less confusion and less idle speculation, it's a given. It's a statement of the obvious. Debate amongst people who profess to be Christians should start there, taken for granted, without having to state the obvious, and should rather commence with the nature of how God exercises, and will exercise, that control.
You have not precluded my elaborating on this point, but why say that I don't need to feel obligated to justify myself by way of fleshing it out for people, perhaps you included. That's rhetorical also by the way, hence I've dispensed with some question marks in this comment just to reinforce that.
Secondly, you take it as an article of faith of your religion, which is not my religion as has become abundantly clear, that Paul's letters were "God breathed." They were not. They were authored by Paul, not always seeing much light, if any. If you will now turn back to say that God is in control of all things, therefore God authored them, there is no point in attempting to converse with you further.
You are of the opinion that those (the committee) who chose what would and wouldn't be called Holy Scripture that resulted in the 66 books chose correctly. Interesting number that: 66. They did not choose correctly. Paul's letters came after Jesus both spoke and did his deeds. Paul's letters are inconsistent with Jesus's words and deeds. Nothing inconsistent with Jesus is Christian, period. Anything inconsistent with Jesus is antichrist. Enough said, I trust, for those who can receive it — be convicted by their consciences.
If you choose to continue with the inconsistencies by rationalizing as you have, that's your freewill choice of which God is not the author. God is not the author of the rebellion against him, contrary to the necessary conclusion of your religion.
For other readers now, I will be stating the obvious here but it bears stating. If John and Peter were correct (and they were correct) in refusing to do evil that even the then Sanhedrin (the supreme authority of the Jews at the time under Roman, mundane authority) ordered them to do, it is also correct that none of us follow evil orders of the secular state or any "theocratic" or religious state but rather face the penalty and punishment inflicted by Satan's state/Kingdom on Earth (by definition) and even go on to meet our real God. Guy Vestal would have you consider this the "Horns of a dilemma." There is no real dilemma here. There is only dilemma in Guy's mind. I don't suffer from his dilemma. Neither should you.
Guy says Paul's letters are not able to be in error. Consider just the following one point, among the many others I've stated elsewhere on this website including in the series "Debate is Christian," of which Guy perhaps has not availed himself before deeming to preach here in my house against my God, Jesus, all other Christians, and me.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13 KJVR)
That's Paul. Now, here's Jesus:
Paul says everyone calling upon the name "Jesus" (in whatever language) shall be saved. I tell you that on his deathbed, one simply mouthing "Jesus" is not necessarily going to be saved in this or the age to come. The "Lord" is "Jesus." To say the "Lord" is to say "Jesus." Saying either is not necessarily to believe. Believing on the level Paul used the term is not necessarily to be doing the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Now, my point to everyone is that it is painfully obvious to those who love the truth that "Pauline Christianity" has not brought forth.
Now Guy wants you to conclude that those amongst the Israelites who call themselves Zionists, but which are not real but rather false-hearted, do not have the greater sin in that they horned their way into the so-called Promised Land and used terrorism to establish their nation. He wants you to believe that you are not to stand up with Jesus speaking truth. To Guy, God is in control, so why speak out against injustice. In this case, the injustice is being done primarily to Arabs and primarily to Muslims. However, it is also being done against those professing Christ. So, when they come to take Guy away to prison for speaking his vision, keep silent. However, that would not be practicing Christ's teachings or emulating him — plain and simple to those who love the truth and who don't put bitter for sweet.
No, Guy is wrong. You are to speak out. When the Muslims do evil, you are to speak out. When you do evil, you are to speak within with Jesus and God, repent, and atone.
Now Guy wrote the following:
He wrote that in response to Jesus's words that Pontius Pilate had the lesser sin. So for Guy, Jesus is a flip-flopper "waffle boy." Well, I'll take as many steps away from Guy as necessary so that I won't be associated with him come that White Throne Judgment and Bema Seat Judgment of which he speaks. I completely disassociate myself from Guy's views.
Guy doesn't read carefully and completely. Jesus teaches about fewer stripes for lesser sins.
Guy wrote of Jesus, "He is not required to bow before no one." This means that Jesus is required to bow before everyone. That is false. It is a double negative — too careless and indicative.
Guy also says that Jesus "chose no human to rule over Him. We did." Well, Jesus is human, but I have not chosen others then God in one with Jesus in righteousness to rule over me. Guy presumes to speak for me. Who gave him leave? I did not and do not at this point.
As for what Guy had to say about voting, it is so tangled that one is hard pressed to sort it out for him. Clearly, Jesus voted and votes for no worldly leader. Guy just made that point but now reverses himself (flip-flops and waffles). I will leave it there for him to ponder. As for desperation, I felt no such emotion, not even slightly.
Guy:
Matthew 28:20 says to do the Christian Commons — to bring forth.
all things whatsoever I have commanded you necessarily includes bringing forth the feeding of the lambs and sheep in body and spirit.
Guy wants to cut that out from the "all things." Doing that is typically Pauline — error mounded upon error.
Now, there are those who claim that this doesn't mean what it means. They will not take it within the full context of Jesus's words and deeds. What are you going to do with such souls? You are going to be separated from them if you both believe and do. Professing belief is nothing without doing. After professing, the proof is in the deeds.
[Note: I have stripped out the so-called emendations]
For those who will rush to judgment that this does not apply to any but professed Christians, let me remind you of the other words by which the above must also fit in the full context.
Guy:
This is bitter for sweet. Nowhere have I ever said that either side in that conflict is right. Who though is the greater oppressor? The false-hearted, self-styled Zionists are the greater oppressor. I call for both sides not to oppress. The Zionists claim the God of Jesus and that Jesus was wrong. Let them stop misdirecting and giving God a bad name and reputation with their lies. The Muslims are likewise wrong concerning the teachings and example of Mohammed. I have made that very clear on this website, as a simple search and a reading of the results will clearly attest.
Guy would have the prophets shut up. I would that people would open their ears.
Guy thinks the prophets were not granted power. Jesus could do nothing without God, but he certainly could do things with God and did. Guy falsely imagines that I have no power by my words. He is sorely wrong.
As for the issue of Omni, we are to be one with God and Jesus. If we are becoming one with them and with the Holy Spirit within and all about, how will Guy prevent us from becoming Omni? He will not.
Guy is being the dog in the manger. So now I say clearly and plainly.
Is the Christian Commons correct? Do you hold with the Luke-Acts Apostles in holding all things common? If the Christian Commons is wrong, how so is it wrong? Upon what words and deeds of Jesus Christ do you based such a claim? That is not rhetorical.
Guy: "How does that "Blame game" work again?"
You, Guy, take issue with Jesus.
Why call serpents, serpents? Why blame them? Is that your considered opinion, or have you given these things no thought? Go consider before you speak again. You are leading people astray. Of that, there is no doubt.
I see that you invoked the names Bush (the one who said, "So what" concerning all the lies in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq), Cheney (the one who said it is time to go over to the "dark side" and who to this very day advocates waterboarding), and Rove (the admitted, chosen, unrepentant practitioner of the dark arts).
You voted for Bush didn't you, Guy, both times?
You've made your bed. Now go sleep in it, or repent and make atonement, for you are responsible and accountable with Bush, Cheney, and Rove for their sins as well. I am not, just as Jesus was not and is not responsible for the sins of Caesar, his dupes and minions or the dupes and minions of the chief priests and high priest of the Sanhedrin of the synagogue of Satan.
I didn't vote for Bush, and I've repented of all secular votes while I offer up and stand by the Christian Commons as a liberal device by which the many may repent and atone and set things right.
So, laugh me to scorn, Guy, the way they laughed Jesus to scorn.
Blessings To All That They May Receive The Peace Of The Lord and LORD,
Tom Usher
Wednesday, January 7, 2009 @ 3:53:09 PM (Pacific Time)
Greetings Tom...
Ok. Your right! I am indeed a heretic, folks should run as far, and as fast as possible from me. :-)
Well good luck! I hope you eventually make it on TBN's programming schedule. Keep plugging away faithfully, and maybe you can open for Joel Osteen one day! Don't let them rip you off tho, except nothing less than %15 of the gross, not the net. (Make sure the advertising kickback isn't included in rake tho!)
Thursday, January 8, 2009 @ 2:40:19 AM (Pacific Time)
To All,
In Guy Vestal's podcast, he said that the U.S. should allow Israel to do what it has to do vis-a-vis the Palestinians. Who can mistake that Guy is telling us all in a roundabout way not to counsel peace? What Guy has said here is not peacemaking, not even indirectly. On the one hand, Guy says not to be involved but to stay on what he considers message. I believe he calls it "missions field." (I had difficulty making out that term in his podcast.) On the other hand, he immerses himself, as here.
He selects certain verses from Jesus but not others. When Jesus says, blessed are the peace makers, Jesus is not saying don't speak against injustice, oppression, war, violence, greed, or any other unchecked lust. He is not saying don't do anything about those things. What Jesus says is don't coerce while you help to turn people and to alleviate pain and suffering.
You will get what you do. You will end up on the receiving end.
Guy didn't mention the multibillions of dollars the U.S. gives to Israel every year for Israel to then turn around and spend on U.S. weaponry, which it does. Does Guy also call for cutting off Israel from U.S. military funding and equipment? Let him say.
Real Peace,
Tom Usher
Thursday, January 8, 2009 @ 3:02:50 AM (Pacific Time)
To Guy Vestal,
This is in direct response to your comment submitted on 2009/01/07 at 3:53pm:
Explanations for your reply are that you suffer from extremely low reading comprehension or you read the very short post above and looked at the video but did not even look around this site otherwise. Did you even look down the left and right columns here? You may also be the type who deliberately doesn't look around so that he may stay in his false-hearted bubble. What other possibilities are there? They all point to trouble.
Try doing a site search here on "TBN," "Paul Crouch," and/or "Joel Osteen" before spouting off as you have. Then apologize if you are able.
Guy, you are far, far closer to TBN and Joel Osteen than am I. Who can't see that who has his eyes open?
Do you think that an unrepentant TBN or an unrepentant Joel Osteen are going to join the Christian Commons?
I'm a communist (Christian, not Marxist), Guy. I'm a total pacifist. I stand squarely opposed to the prosperity preachers who have their reward in the here and now only.
Really Guy, talk about ducking. You avoided everything here.
As for heresy, what is orthodoxy? I say it's what Jesus lived. I don't hold with your Protestantism, as I also don't hold with the false-Catholics. I don't hold with your Paulism or Calvinism, sola hairsplitting and obfuscations, futile delaying-tactics, and excuses for not bringing forth, as one, as called for by Jesus.
Calvin was not Jesus — not one with him in spirit.
Tom Usher
Friday, January 9, 2009 @ 11:16:24 AM (Pacific Time)
Do you think that TBN or Joel Osteen would want someone who's anti-Pauline? I don't mean I'm anti-Paul. I'm anti-Pauline where the Pauline use Paul to the exclusion of Jesus, (don't reconcile them; can't) to excuse avoiding doing the commandments of Jesus and the will of God the Father in the real and New Heaven to come. Do you think that TBN or Osteen would have me (in agreement) even though I'm anti-patriotic? By anti-patriotic, I don't mean that I don't love the American people. I love them as Jesus loves them all even though he hates them all too at the same time.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26 KJVR)
His and mine is a love-hate relationship with fallen humanity.
I say with Jesus, The world hates me,  because I too testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. (John 7:7 KJVR)